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Thread: Got strong and big, now what?

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Got strong and big, now what?

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    So, I have been overweight for the past 4 years, 2 out of I was not training. I have trained for 2 years now using the SS method, my body composition has improved but I am still fat with enough belly that barely lets me see the belt I'm wearing (never counted calories but most of the time was in a surplus for sure). A clarification as for me being strong:
    Deadlift 5RM 200kg
    Bench press 5RM 115kg
    Overhead Press 5RM 87.5kg
    Chin-ups just 5 (cause I am overweight and the purpose is to fix that, read later)
    Barbell rows 5RM 110KG
    Power Clean 110kg

    Now as for my composition, I stand at 184cm tall and weigh 109 kg with an estimated body fat of 32%

    My questions are:

    1)what kind of training approach should I go for in order to retain as much muscle mass/strength as possible when I go for a cut (cause I will)?
    2)since my arms are looking small (16 inches~42cm but not enough definition since fat) could I add size to them while cutting by using some isolation work?
    3)I have been doing a PPL routine for the last 1 and a half month x2 a week (6 training days) with 20 minutes of light to moderate cardio after each session, eating 2800 calories and losing 4kg in that amount of time, is that a normal loss for all the hard work I've done?

  2. #2
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    Not going to venture to give strength training advice to someone bigger and stronger than I am, but 1) what’s your squat? 2) 4kg of weight loss in a month and a half seems fast to me.

  3. #3
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    I'm in a similar boat. I used Coach Baker's cutting method which relies on an HLM template combined with a heavy refeed the day before your heavy day. Every refeed day would consist of: most of my usual meals, but with 2 substitions that were heavy on carbs and sodium (which for me was pizza and pancakes). Every other day I'd keep my calories low. Numerically, this meant eating 2400 calories a day, but eating one extra small or medium pizza + 11 pancakes (and some extra milk, cos pancakes). I'd gain one or two kilos of bodyweight overnight and then lose all of it in about 3-4 days, and then lose even more bodyweight. Took me 7 ish months to go from 99 to 90kg bodyweight like this, but I kept my bench and squat maxes and PRed my press and deadlift working sets. I started at 5x5 and slowly worked my way over to 4 back off sets with one max set, to 3 sets of 5 but always with the latter two sets being back off sets.

    For cardio, I slowly added cardio days. On my heavy day, I'd finish with cardio and I'd do cardio the day before the Medium day, too, since I could always hit those numbers anyway. Cardio was: HIIT on a rower, 6 rounds of 30 seconds all out, 1m30sec rest; and 35 minutes walking on an incline treadmill (as high as I can manage, according to Coach Baker: better than going faster). I did 35 minutes to account for the time it took the treadmill to go from 0% to 15% elevation (maxing out). Takes a lil while. Finally, I added in another day (right before the heavy day) for cardio where I would do 3 sets of 5 beltless press, 3 sets of a fixed amount of chinups (which was 8 at the time I think), and just the rowing. I added everything in slowly, even the walking on every cardio day, and even to where I would do less rounds on the rower on the second cardio day in the beginning. Worked really well. I only went this low in calories cos my bodyweight wasn't moving at all. Wish it hadn't taken 7 whole months, but oh well.

    I lost inches around my waist and nowhere else. My arms were just as big, my shoulders were just as big, my back was just as big. I'm guessing it'd be hard to add size to your arms on a cut, but certainly you can keep them around the same size. That's been my experience at least.

    There's some other little tweaks I made. I did squats beltless on Light day, I did paused bench on Medium day for a time but dropped it cos it was another variable to account for, I dropped cleans after a while cos they weren't progressing and it was exhausting to programme them in, I waited too long to switch heavy deadlifting to Medium day and that messed up the end of my cut completely. Initially, I did deadlift on Heavy day and do it first which led me to PR it by 5%, but I should've been smarter about it and switched it to Medium day after a while. I didn't do any assistance exercises like curls or dips or triceps extensions or whatever. Just heavy lifting and heavy "cardiong".

    Losing that much bodyweight in that short a time is normal. You say you didn't track intake, but now you know you're eating 2800 a day, which isn't a lot, and you're doing cardio on a 6-day a week training schedule. Your very first bodyweight losses are going to be faster cos you're losing the extra energy stored recently that would normally be used in your next workout. (Unless I'm wrong about that. Coach Santana, please oblige.) I'd get worried about your rate of fat loss if your lifts start tanking soon, or at all. Your lifts should stay in about a couple of %s of your pre-cut numbers if they're not going up. Then you know you're doing a decent job of losing weight.

  4. #4
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    1)5RM is only 140kg because of a knee injury that is coming back and forth
    2)not saying it's not, but given my training experience/volume of general exercise and finally my own bodyweight, shouldn't 2700 calories (which I am eating right now) provide a faster loss?

    "You say you didn't track intake, but now you know you're eating 2800 a day, which isn't a lot, and you're doing cardio on a 6-day a week training schedule. Your very first bodyweight losses are going to be faster cos you're losing the extra energy stored recently that would normally be used in your next workout. (Unless I'm wrong about that. Coach Santana, please oblige.) I'd get worried about your rate of fat loss if your lifts start tanking soon, or at all. Your lifts should stay in about a couple of %s of your pre-cut numbers if they're not going up. Then you know you're doing a decent job of losing weight."

    This has been bugging me as well, started on 3100-3300 and saw VERY minimal drops, like 2.5 pounds a month if I kept it going which is to say the least, demotivating. As for my lifts, I believe because I am only 19 years old and my recovery is pretty good they miraculously keep getting a bit better even on a deficit (mostly pulling exercises, only 5 pounds a month on bench/standing press.

    It also seems we have a similar approach and it's kind of reassuring to see someone use a similar amount of calories which makes me think less that something is wrong with me that I need to eat so low. As for my refeed, I don't really have one. I cycle carbs a little bit with the purpose of eating the least on leg+cardio day (injured knee so cant push it either way so nothing to lose), moderate on push and high on 1 or both pull days. I am eating at about 220 on normal days, 170 on low and 270-300 on high (keep in mind that I dont lose calories on low carb days, I just eat fat in its place to remain at my target)


    Point being, the thing that scares me is that I am working pretty hard right now, having normal results on a hardcore schedule and if it stops working I am f*cked.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGman27 View Post
    Point being, the thing that scares me is that I am working pretty hard right now, having normal results on a hardcore schedule and if it stops working I am f*cked.
    Scales can be deceptive. I worked my hunky butt off for 7 months my last cut just to lose 9kg in bodyweight. But visually I looked better/leaner every week. I was starting to develop abs, which I affectionately referred to as my three pack, and also serious self-doubt and insecurities probably due to being exhausted and underfed. So I called it quits then. I wasn't really worried about the scales, more about my lifts and progress in the gym and looks department.

    For reference, we're about the same height give or take one cm and currently about the same weight give or take one kg. Our lifts are also similar, but I got you beat on chins and squats, hehhhh nothing personnel, kid, heh. Anyway, 2800 is probably fine as a steep starting off point, so long as you can still perform. It is rather funny how you talk about normal results like that's a bad thing. A cut well performed will preserve, maybe build, strength and lose body fat overall. Doesn't really matter if you break new ground somehow or outperform everyone else cutting so long as the cut goes well. And I'm sure a lot of people would be screaming for a 4kg loss in 6 weeks. Doctors hate you etc etc.

  6. #6
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    Just shooting from the hip here but it is highly unlikely that at 6ft tall weighing 240lb that you are a fat slob. Your big 4 that you have recorded are in the ballpark of: Deadlift 515, Bench 300, Press 227, Squat 360. Those are solid numbers especially if were talking NLP or general population intermediates. If you are basing your body fat estimate off of a BMI chart then for the love of christ STOP! I am in the army and have to deal with BMI bullshit on a regular basis. We have bod pods on post and the hilarious thing is it directly opposes the BMI system with young, strength training males. If your concerned about your gut you can look at modest dietary changes. If you throw the whole kitchen sink at your weight loss you have nowhere to go. Just as in our programming you need to make the smallest amount of change to spur/continue results. However long it took you to gain the weight is similar to the time you should strive to lose it.

  7. #7
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    2) Actually, you’re losing weight at exactly the rate I’d expect you to at 2800 calories a day.

    And if your bench and press are still going up even during a cut, you might have some novice gains left on the table.

    As Doc has pointed out above, your body weight, height, and lifts do not imply a body fat percentage over 30%.

  8. #8
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    In a shirt I look pretty athletic because the back thickness,width and chest size create an illusion for the shirt to hang there and not the belly. However when the shirt comes off, a literally flabbing belly shows up.

  9. #9
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    The fastest way for me to cut fat and maintain muscle is to intelligently fast making sure I get proper micro nutrients and electrolytes while staying active. I would still train at a lower intensity and add some BCAA's to the diet. For me It's a great tool for maintaining or losing a little strength while losing fat. The downsides are the longer you go the harder it gets mentally and you have to reverse your thought process on nutrition (from macro oriented to micro-nutrient oriented). It's also impossible (IMO) to do the linear progression of SS while fasting unless you are a complete novice because you need constant macro's to recover for the next workout.

    combine fasting with interval training or just plain walking and moving and you will burn a pound of fat a day. I've done 5 days at a time (wed was hardest). YMMV, it's not for everyone because like I said it's mentally hard and I often fail to make it past a day even when I want to do more.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Unfortunately, this is a training board, not a fasting board or an abs board. But thanks for sharing your experiences!!!

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