20 rep breathing squats for older athletes 20 rep breathing squats for older athletes - Page 3

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Thread: 20 rep breathing squats for older athletes

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You're not a good reader. Just do the 20s.
    I read pretty well. At least 5th grade level. But I don't see what me doing 20s would achieve - you still probably wouldn't answer the question, even if I made massive gains. Which makes me wonder what is the point of a Q&A forum where you refuse to answer direct questions?

    It's ok to admit you've changed your mind. Smart people do that, in the face of changing evidence.

  2. #22
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    Ben, it almost seems like you don't want to understand what Coach Rip is trying to tell you.
    So I'll give it a try, maybe you'll listen to me (a random stranger on the internet, who has done the 20 rep squats) and be as clear as I can:
    Just do the 20s.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenM View Post
    I read pretty well. At least 5th grade level. But I don't see what me doing 20s would achieve - you still probably wouldn't answer the question, even if I made massive gains. Which makes me wonder what is the point of a Q&A forum where you refuse to answer direct questions?

    It's ok to admit you've changed your mind. Smart people do that, in the face of changing evidence.
    I am going to state the obvious - you are as dense as a box of rocks.

    1. Note that the OP's FIRST post on this forum was to barely acknowledge the Starting Strength methodology and immediately endorse, and inquire about, a methodology not practiced nor recommended via the Starting Strength program. This is a pathetic attempt to troll.
    2. To accurately determine if a prescribed strength program is efficacious or effective for an individual, it is incumbent for the individual to test it and document the results. Nobody else can do this for you. By doing so, you will determine if the program is of any value to you or not.
    3. Why is the OP inquiring about self-questioned critical medical advice on the Starting Strength forum ("potential of a heart attack or stroke from 20 rep squats"?). Inquire with a qualified and experienced Medical Sports Doctor. "Mommy May I..." does not exist on this forum if you have not already understood this concept. Do the work and research yourself.
    4. Go paint your faces, CLOWNs.

    Coach, you are remarkably patient as the owner of a private forum. My diminutive recommendation would be that you relocate this thread to the "General Programming" forum, if you choose to retain it, where it can be discussed ad nauseum.

  4. #24
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    Iíve just finished the 20 rep program and put on 5lbs and have gotten leaner. Iím now looking forward to getting back to a 3x5 program and wonít think about doing the 20 rep routine until well into next year. I do think it is a productive program, but it is psychologically taxing as Rip states. Towards the end of the 20 rep program it takes around 6 minutes to complete all 20 reps Ė if you can do them in less than 5 minutes then you probably havenít got enough weight on the bar.

  5. #25
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    As I read the linked thread:
    Someone asks about the 20 rep program and Rip tells them what it is. Someone else asks about whether it might be useful training for heavy backpack mountaineering (stamina) at the end of a novice phase and Rip agrees it might.
    So, 20 rep squats might be good for stamina. But then again, so might multiple sets with shorter rest or other protocols.

    As for 5s being more conducive to progressive overload than 20s - I see this as being able to be inferred from 1 RM estimate tables (even thought they don't go to 20 reps). For example, a 5Rm is about 86% of 1RM so a 5 pound increase for 5 reps corresponds to a 5.8 pound 1 RM increase, whereas for 10 RM it would be 75% and correspond to a 6.7 pound 1RM increase. So any weight increase on a higher rep scheme is 'harder' and may lead to earlier stalling. Yes, you could micro-load, but who really micro-loads squats.

    There are, of course, other training parameters than reps and weight that can be varied. You could add more sets or reduce rest between sets, and these would appear to me to be more suited to endurance and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy than strength. Therefore, on a strength focussed board you are not likely to get positive recommendations for these.

    From what I can tell, Rip's programmes are based on three principles (paraphrased as use the most weight, through the longest effective ROM, using the most muscle mass) which matches with Rip's empirical evidence. Big compound exercises with relatively low reps and lots of rest meet these principles.

    The rationale for 20 rep squats appear to be they are really hard to do so must be good. I don't know how much empirical evidence their is of their benefit, but its pretty widely understood that you can't do that programme for long.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by soycuadrado View Post
    I am going to state the obvious - you are as dense as a box of rocks.

    1. Note that the OP's FIRST post on this forum was to barely acknowledge the Starting Strength methodology and immediately endorse, and inquire about, a methodology not practiced nor recommended via the Starting Strength program. This is a pathetic attempt to troll.
    2. To accurately determine if a prescribed strength program is efficacious or effective for an individual, it is incumbent for the individual to test it and document the results. Nobody else can do this for you. By doing so, you will determine if the program is of any value to you or not.
    3. Why is the OP inquiring about self-questioned critical medical advice on the Starting Strength forum ("potential of a heart attack or stroke from 20 rep squats"?). Inquire with a qualified and experienced Medical Sports Doctor. "Mommy May I..." does not exist on this forum if you have not already understood this concept. Do the work and research yourself.
    4. Go paint your faces, CLOWNs.

    Coach, you are remarkably patient as the owner of a private forum. My diminutive recommendation would be that you relocate this thread to the "General Programming" forum, if you choose to retain it, where it can be discussed ad nauseum.
    What is it with some of you people! I make a genuine friendly enquiry to a group of people with common interests (weight training) and you get some ranting such as "mommy may I ". What the heck is the matter with you? I simply wanted an opinion from a respected weight trainer about the safety of doing 20 rep squats for older athletes - that's all. If you're not interested in the post and have nothing constructive to contribute then shut-up.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander Dargatz View Post
    Ben, it almost seems like you don't want to understand what Coach Rip is trying to tell you.
    So I'll give it a try, maybe you'll listen to me (a random stranger on the internet, who has done the 20 rep squats) and be as clear as I can:
    I wasn't the one enquiring about it, and I have no desire to do them. I was merely asking Rip to expand on his statement that they are unproductive - he doesn't seem to want to do that, despite having previously advocated for them, and since I have no desire to attempt them (at this point in my training career, anyway) then it seems we're at a stalemate.

    The thing is that normally in discussions, the onus is on the person making the statement to justify it, not on someone else to disprove it. But if Rip won't do that, we can't force him, and it's his forum, so yaknow.. I've probably pushed the barrow long enough and I'll bow out. Before I do, though, I couldn't let this one go:

    Quote Originally Posted by soycuadrado View Post
    I am going to state the obvious - you are as dense as a box of rocks.

    1. Note that the OP's FIRST post on this forum was to barely acknowledge the Starting Strength methodology and immediately endorse, and inquire about, a methodology not practiced nor recommended via the Starting Strength program. This is a pathetic attempt to troll.
    2. To accurately determine if a prescribed strength program is efficacious or effective for an individual, it is incumbent for the individual to test it and document the results. Nobody else can do this for you. By doing so, you will determine if the program is of any value to you or not.
    3. Why is the OP inquiring about self-questioned critical medical advice on the Starting Strength forum ("potential of a heart attack or stroke from 20 rep squats"?). Inquire with a qualified and experienced Medical Sports Doctor. "Mommy May I..." does not exist on this forum if you have not already understood this concept. Do the work and research yourself.
    If you're telling me that I'm dense, well.. that's a bit uncalled for since all I've done is ask a simple question and asked Rip to expand on his statement a bit more.

    On your first point, I think calling someone a troll just because they ask a question about something unrelated to Starting Strength is also uncalled for. Rip is a strength coach, is he not allowed to have opinions (and be asked for them) on other matters pertaining to strength, even if not the Starting Strength program per se?

    On the second, sure. No arguments here. But I wasn't asking if they'd be efficacious for me. I was asking why Rip thinks they're unproductive (he didn't say 'for most people' - it was an unreserved and uncaveated statement), assuming they were done in a way that provided stimulus for adaption.

    On the third, no disagreement here - fair comment. Asking a doctor would probably be better than asking a strength coach.

    If you're going to call people trolls, then perhaps you could do so without misrepresenting their arguments, that could also be construed as, dare I say it, trollish.

    Anyway, like I said, I'm out. No point flogging this dead horse any longer.

  8. #28
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    20 Rep squat programs are for pansies, way too easy. If you want to build extreme muscle mass, get insane gains in the shortest amount of time and test your mental toughness at the absolute limit you need to try my 21 rep squat program. It's what Seal Team 6 use.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
    20 Rep squat programs are for pansies, way too easy. If you want to build extreme muscle mass, get insane gains in the shortest amount of time and test your mental toughness at the absolute limit you need to try my 21 rep squat program. It's what Seal Team 6 use.
    You win the thread and need to copyright the 21 rep program before it is stolen.

    On another note- I for one appreciate Rip's method of teaching others to fish rather than just handing out fish.

  10. #30
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    Ben,
    Rip has been as patient with you as as anything I have seen. It's his forum. You may not like the answer but it is his answer on his forum. And his perspective on 20s is out there, just look. Why keep arguing when he has given you an answer?

    Do your 20s. Be sure to adequately recover (unlikely), stay motivated (unlikely) and learn to hate getting under the bar.
    'Cuz that's what a run of 20s will get you with the end result being a questionable increase, if any, in strength.

    Finally, check out the video by Brent Carter, SSC, "Why Fives" for more info.

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