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  1. #1
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    Sep 2019
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    Topic/Interview request - Stuart McGill, expert in low back injuries. Would love to hear your conversation.

    For next Q&A Podcast (had sent via twitter and email but I think this is best. Sorry for the numerous reach outs)

    I'm a 45yo male training for a 1-mile race on 12/31/19. Started SS last week. Will run ~20-25mpw. How should SS progress expectations be adjusted, if at all? ~30yr history of running/triathlon, very little lifting, outside of push-ups/pull-ups. Never been particularly strong, but can run forever.

    Thanks.

    Mike P

    (I'm sure the initial response is "don't run". But in reality, I'm not going to quit running. Enjoy it too much. Again, thanks.)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
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    Runners are a hardheaded bunch; we don't like to not run. I suspect you'll need to make the attempt at combining the two, if only to learn for yourself. I crashed within two weeks of trying. Let us know how you fare.

  3. #3
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    Apr 2019
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    Mike,

    I too was a runner before starting this strength training program. However, my running career only started 3 years ago. I started running for weight loss. I enjoyed running because (1) itís free (2) you can do it anywhere (3) it helped me lose weight. I went from a pudgy body weight of 205# to a lean 175#. When I was running, I completed two 1/2 marathons. I averaged about 15 mpw when I wasnít training for a race.

    I have been strength training since late March. And like you, when I stared, I wanted to continue running (and CrossFit WODS) during my strength training. I can honestly say, from experience and the literature Iíve read, this is a bad idea. It wonít work. Strength training should be your priority. All of your recovery resources need to directed and getting stronger, not for endurance. The weight on the bar will get heavy enough that you will not be able to recover in 24-48 hours if you are putting in that many MPW. For the next 6 months, just focus on getting strong. You already know you can run. However, you admittingly confessed to being weak. With that being said, what do you suppose your focus should be on? If you must run, Iíd keep it to no more than 2ea 30 minute sessions of cardio per week. Thatís it. Not full out race pace. Just a nice steady elevated heart rate.

    Regarding the defiance to not stop running......I highly suggest you pick up a copy of ďThe Barbell Prescription: Strength Training For Life After 40Ē. In it, it talks about how running inhibits type II muscle growth, how running is not the best use of our time for conditioning, and how itís not beneficial for our joint health (hopefully you already realize the impact from running is not good for your joints), etc, etc. There are far superior and safer ways to condition....HIIT and sled work come to mind. But again, during the novice phase, just focus on strength training only.

    Again, like you, I donít want to stop running. Itís a cheap, easy, do anywhere form of conditioning. I like to run on my lunch breaks at work. However, I have severely limited my MPW to 3, maybe 6. But usually only 3. Additionally, Iíve stopped doing CrossFit altogether. Because of these decisions, my linear progression has not suffered. Additionally, I am back to a body of weight of 200#. But I donít look pudgy anymore. I look like Iíve been strength training. When I was running, people said I looked like I had cancer. After 9 months of strength training, people ask me if Iím on steroids. Seriously. I much happier at my current weight than when I was a thin runner.

    If you are going to insist on putting in high MPW, you will not very far in this program. There is no workaround on this. Even after you become an intermediate lifter, your focus should still be more about weights than running. Lastly, get the 3rd ed Starting Strength blue book too. It talks about this topic as well. Best of luck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    1,045

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpalios View Post
    Topic/Interview request - Stuart McGill, expert in low back injuries. Would love to hear your conversation.

    For next Q&A Podcast (had sent via twitter and email but I think this is best. Sorry for the numerous reach outs)

    I'm a 45yo male training for a 1-mile race on 12/31/19. Started SS last week. Will run ~20-25mpw. How should SS progress expectations be adjusted, if at all? ~30yr history of running/triathlon, very little lifting, outside of push-ups/pull-ups. Never been particularly strong, but can run forever.

    Thanks.

    Mike P

    (I'm sure the initial response is "don't run". But in reality, I'm not going to quit running. Enjoy it too much. Again, thanks.)
    Not running is the most helpful solution for maximizing your novice progression, but you already ruled that out.
    Next I would suggest a significant decrease in your mileage and frequency. If you are an experienced distance runner training for a 1 mile race in three months you are not going to gain much from the increases in aerobic efficiency developed by maintaining weekly mileage. Cut the running to 4 days a week, maximum 4 miles a day. If you like to run in the morning and lift in the evening do not run on your three lifting days. If you have other scheduling preferences try to set it up that you have >24 hours free of running prior to lifting. You will also have to eat enough to steadily gain weight. If you find you are burning out you can try lifting every third day or twice weekly instead of three times a week.

    You will stall earlier than if you were not running, but since no one knows how much earlier, or when you would stall without running, you cannot adjust for that. All I can say is that if you decide to take a run at novice progression in the future without running you can expect to get further than you will on this one.
    After your race and when you are transitioning to intermediate programming would be the best time to consider increasing your mileage again, if that is what makes you happy.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    16

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    Mike,

    New to this strength thing, too, after decades of ultramarathon cycling and running, plus tri's. Training for those, strength training gains were (and are) for the off-season.

    Thinking back to those training plans, it looks like your focus needs to be the running for your 12/31 event. Any lifting right now would fall under what Joe Friel would call "Anatomical Adaptation". In other words, keep the weights light, but start working on your technique. Then, a few days after you race (or once the NY resolution crowds thin out), start your linear progression plan in earnest.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    157

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpalios View Post
    Topic/Interview request - Stuart McGill, expert in low back injuries. Would love to hear your conversation.

    For next Q&A Podcast (had sent via twitter and email but I think this is best. Sorry for the numerous reach outs)

    I'm a 45yo male training for a 1-mile race on 12/31/19. Started SS last week. Will run ~20-25mpw. How should SS progress expectations be adjusted, if at all? ~30yr history of running/triathlon, very little lifting, outside of push-ups/pull-ups. Never been particularly strong, but can run forever.

    Thanks.

    Mike P

    (I'm sure the initial response is "don't run". But in reality, I'm not going to quit running. Enjoy it too much. Again, thanks.)
    Do your NLP as written for 8 weeks with HIIT that is low impact, low skill and in a 1:3 ratio (barbell logic YT). This will allow for you to maintain your cardio for the 1miler while improving your maximal strength, and giving your joints a break. Week 9 you can gradually introduce short distance runs @ similar work rest ratios to replace your HIIT. Week 10 you can drop your NLP to ◊2 a week (M,R) and add a second running session @ medium distance. Week 11 change the second session to 5◊3. Week 12 lift light and eliminate the HIIT. Week 13 figure out some ungodly way your going to run 20mph.
    Week 1-8
    (M,W,F) 3◊5 SQ, BP,/Pr, DL// (T,R) HIIT
    Week 9
    (M,W,F) 3◊5 SQ, BP/ Pr, DL// (T) HIIT, (R) Short Distance
    Week 10
    (M,R) 3◊5 SQ, BP/ Pr, DL// (T,F) Short & Mid Distance Runs, (W) HIIT
    Week 11
    (M,R) 5◊3 SQ, BP/ Pr, DL// (T,F) Short & Mid Distance Runs, (W) HIIT
    Week 12
    Light Lifts// (M, W, opt F) Short, & ◊2 Mid Distance Runs
    Week 13
    Event
    Your 30yrs or endurance running will allow for you to hang up the shoes temporarily. Plus when you come back to the track you may surprise yourself @ what you can do at shorter distances with a body that can produce more force.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Dutchess County, NY
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    1,805

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    Agree that McGill would be an interesting interview. From what I know of him, he's really not anti-squat. Okay - he's not exactly on the SS team in terms of barbell training, but he's a well-studied man and might be interesting to hear what he has to say about spinal integrity. At the very least, I think Rip and McGill could have a really fascinating conversation.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    147

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    I doubt mcgill is opposed to barbell training considering he endorsed duffinís transformer bar recently.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
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    3

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    Thank you all for these replies...I didn't get notified.

    My progress in SS has actually been pretty linear up to this point. Of course, my form sucks balls, so I've got to take a step back, but I'm okay with that.

    I've been maintaining 20-30 mpw so far with that progress. I know it won't last forever. This 1-mile race is important to me, and I'm sure SS is helping me achieve my time goal.

    Again, I do appreciate everyone's comments.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    North Texas
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    39,891

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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by mpalios View Post
    Thank you all for these replies...I didn't get notified.
    Not our job.

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