PPST TSFOSB Powerlifting Template question PPST TSFOSB Powerlifting Template question

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Thread: PPST TSFOSB Powerlifting Template question

  1. #1
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    Default PPST TSFOSB Powerlifting Template question

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    So I searched first and was unable to find an answer.

    I'm looking at the sample powerlifting TSFOSB template in PPST3 on pages 196-199.

    The basic layout of the program says this:

    w1 3x5 @ 90% od 5x5 PR
    w2 5x5 @ PR
    w3 2x5 @ 80% of w2
    w4 5RM

    What confuses me is the sample meet cycle. I'm not sure how the numbers are being calculated for some of the days, particularly Day 3 Bench and Day 2 squat. I really wish they used percentages instead of actual numbers or at least gave what 1RM or 5RM were used to calculate those numbers in the sample. Also, if you didn't want to train haltings how would you set this up training deadlift? I've never responded well to haltings in the past.



  2. #2
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    Here's the template in question

    Block 1, 2 cycles

    Week Monday Tuesday Thursday Friday
    1 Bench 300x5x3 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 270x5x3 Squat 405x5x3
    Weighted Dips 4x 8-10 Haltings 465x8 Press 185x8x3 Power Clean 4x3
    2 Bench 335x5x5 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 305x5x4 Squat 450x5x5
    Weighted Dips 5 x 8-10 Rack Pull 485x5x2 Press 185x8x4 Power Clean 5x3
    3 Bench 265x5x2 Squat 365x5x2 CG Bench 255x5x2 Squat 365x5x2
    Weighted Dips 2x8-10 Power Shrug 565x5x2 Press 175x8x2 Power Clean 2x3
    4 Bench 350x5 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 320x5 Squat 475x5
    Weighted Dips 3x8-10 Rack Pull 495x5 Press 200x8 Power Clean 3x3
    5 Bench 305x5x3 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 280x5x3 Squat 410x5x3

    Weighted Dips 4x8-10
    Haltings 485x8 Press 190x8x3 Power Clean 4x3
    6 Bench 340x5x5 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 310x5x4 Squat 455x5x5
    Weighted Dips 5x8-10 Rack Pull 505x5 Press 190x8x4 Power Clean 5x3
    7 Bench 270x5x2 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 265x5x2 Squat 365x5x2
    Weighted Dips 2x8-10 Power Shrug 595x5 Press 180x8x2 Power Clean 2x3
    8 Bench 355x5 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 325x5 Squat 480x5
    Weighted Dips 3x8-10 Rack Pull 515x5 Press 205x8 Power Clean 3x3
    Block 2
    9 Bench 315x3x3 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 285x5x3 Squat 425x3x3
    Weighted Dips 4x5-7 Haltings 505x5 Press 200x6x3 Power Clean 4x3
    10 Bench 355x3x5 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 310x5x4 Squat 480x3x5
    Weighted Dips 5x5-7 Rack Pull 525x5 Press 200x6x4 Power Clean 5x3
    11 Bench 285x3x2 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 265x5x2 Squat 385x3x2
    Weighted Dips 2x5-7 Power Shrug 625x5 Press 190x6x2 Power Clean 2x3
    12 Bench 370x3 Squat 365x5x3 CG Bench 330x5 Squat 500x3
    Weighted Dips 3x5-7 Rack Pull 540x5 Press 220x6 Power Clean 3x3
    Block 3
    13 Bench 335x3x3 Squat 365x5x2 CG Bench 305x3x3 Squat 450x3x3
    Weighted Dips 4x4-6 Haltings 515x5 Press 205x4x3 Power Clean 4x3
    14 Bench 380x1x5, paused Squat 365x5x2 CG Bench 340x2x4 Squat 515x1x5
    Weighted Dips 4x4-6 Rack Pull 555x5 Press 205x4x4 Power Clean 5x3
    15 Bench 315x2x2 Squat 365x5x2 CG Bench 300x3x2 Squat 425x2x2
    Weighted Dips 2x4-6 Power Shrugs 655x5 Press 200x2x2 Power Clean 2x3

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by djl236 View Post
    So I searched first and was unable to find an answer.

    I'm looking at the sample powerlifting TSFOSB template in PPST3 on pages 196-199.

    The basic layout of the program says this:

    w1 3x5 @ 90% od 5x5 PR
    w2 5x5 @ PR
    w3 2x5 @ 80% of w2
    w4 5RM

    What confuses me is the sample meet cycle. I'm not sure how the numbers are being calculated for some of the days, particularly Day 3 Bench and Day 2 squat. I really wish they used percentages instead of actual numbers or at least gave what 1RM or 5RM were used to calculate those numbers in the sample. Also, if you didn't want to train haltings how would you set this up training deadlift? I've never responded well to haltings in the past.


    The percentages are to illustrate a generalized fluctuation in intensity from week to week within the mesocycle. Advanced lifters have vast training data/ expierence that they can rely on to make these decisions. So the H/L set up with a generalized means & method prescription should suffice. The light exercises are going to be specific to the lifter that will commonly address a sticking point. The light exercise if chosen wisely should not produce a similar stress to the parent exercise making its comparison muddy at best. Trying to extrapolate percentage deficits from the parent exercise and lifts addressing a weak point is probably not fruitful. As an advanced lifter i would rely on your personal log that is guided by a general layout that is in PPST3. As far as halting deadlifts just change it out with a similar exercise that addresses your personal weak point (mean), and volume protocol (method).

  4. #4
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    Day 3 bench press is roughly ~90% of Day 1, which sounds about right. Bench press can be trained often and heavier than squats, presses, and deadlifts. The "RM" prescriptions are indicated that you need to pull an all out set in an attempt to PR that rep range. That's what a "RM" is. If you are in the demographic that needs to be on a program like this then you should have enough historical data to know what your 3RM or 5RM is.

    For instance, I pulled 435 x 5 in early 2018 and didn't really hit a 5RM again because of the type of training cycles I was on. I started alternating a limit set of rack pulls with a limit set of deficit deadlifts in June. I ramped the deficits up quick (~15 lb jumps) because I started them in the low 400s and was only doing them every two weeks. Two weeks after hitting 425, I went for 440 because I wanted to pull a new 5RM and new that I could make the jump. Then two weeks later I barely squeezed out 450. So next week I'll pull 455. PRs every two weeks.

    To answer your question more specifically, RMs are absolute not estimated.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Day 3 bench press is roughly ~90% of Day 1, which sounds about right. Bench press can be trained often and heavier than squats, presses, and deadlifts. The "RM" prescriptions are indicated that you need to pull an all out set in an attempt to PR that rep range. That's what a "RM" is. If you are in the demographic that needs to be on a program like this then you should have enough historical data to know what your 3RM or 5RM is.

    For instance, I pulled 435 x 5 in early 2018 and didn't really hit a 5RM again because of the type of training cycles I was on. I started alternating a limit set of rack pulls with a limit set of deficit deadlifts in June. I ramped the deficits up quick (~15 lb jumps) because I started them in the low 400s and was only doing them every two weeks. Two weeks after hitting 425, I went for 440 because I wanted to pull a new 5RM and new that I could make the jump. Then two weeks later I barely squeezed out 450. So next week I'll pull 455. PRs every two weeks.

    To answer your question more specifically, RMs are absolute not estimated.
    I guess I should've been more clear. I know my 5RMs and I can see, using the squat for example, that the basic layout is clearly displayed on Friday for the squat, but it's not telling the reader how Tuesdays squat workout is being calculated. I can figure out that 365 is slightly more than 80% (it's 81%) of 450x5x5 but there's nothing written in the book on setting up this second day and it's mostly for 3x5 with a few random 2x5 thrown in, in this example template.

    What I'm taking from this is that other squat day should be 80% of your 5x5 PR for 2-3x5 depending on the lifter's recovery?

  6. #6
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    starting strength coach development program
    It's a light squat day, that's it. Don't over analyze.

    A more advanced lifter is going to know what a light day means to them. Some lifters are going to use smaller offsets in load, some may use more. Could be anywhere from 5-25%, maybe more if someone is moving some serious weight. A big guy squatting 500 for sets of 5 might use 315 for his light day. A lighter female might use only a 5-10% offset for the light day. 2 sets vs 3 sets is probably not a terribly important consideration and I doubt that 99% of the users of this program are walking such a razors edge that a single light set is going to move the needle in either direction very much.

    We made a pain-staking effort in PPST3 to repeatedly point out that advanced programming is something that occurs at an individual level. You EVOLVE into your programming based on your individual response to whatever you are doing now. Hell, you might not even need the light day.

    One of my core philosophies, which is highlighted prominently in PPST3, is that if a lifter is stagnant in their progression on a lift, then in general, I'm going to look for a way to ADD STRESS to that exercise during the week. It might be in the form of intensity, it might be in the form of volume, perhaps both. What you add would depend on what you are doing now. If a lifter is already doing tons of volume in say the 70-80% range, then I'm not going to add more volume. I'll figure out a way to bump up the intensity a bit with perhaps a small dose of higher intensity sets in the 85-95% range. If the lifter is stagnant and his current programming is just a couple of higher intensity sets each week....I'll probably add volume.

    If I find that a lifter is showing regression, I'm going to look at the possibility that he is overtraining. Perhaps too much volume, perhaps too much intensity. Based on my review of his current programming we'll throttle something back a bit. This assumes he is addressing his recovery properly which is often a big assumption.

    These programs, especially the advanced programs, are meant to be read as potential methods of organization to your training. We don't expect anyone to follow these things set for set, rep for rep. It's not an individual prescription for any one lifter. I would generally tell people to start with something reasonable that resembled what we laid out here, but guided by your own individual tolerances and go from there. If you have no idea how to do this, you probably aren't an advanced lifter that would require a monthly organization.

    -Andy

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