2-Day Full Body Routine - Volume Advice

[acedrake]

Due to non-strength athletic training commitments and work, I can really only make it into the gym 2 days a week (Tuesdays and Thursdays). I've set up the following routine and so far it feels pretty good after a couple days:

-Squat: 5x3
-Press: 5x5
-Deadlift: 5x1 (alternate with power cleans once deadlift is high enough)
-On Sundays I'm supplementing with bodyweight chin-ups/dips/pushups at local park.

Is this enough volume for only two days? Mainly, should I add more days for accessory exercise, and is 5x1 too few for two times a week? Not overly concerned about seeing true Novice Linear Progression (waiting for my offseason to really dive in) but I also don't want to blow out my knees because I can't squat the bar.
Also, in terms of assistance programming, how foolish would it be to add chins/dips/etc. to gym days? Sitting around staring at my watch for rest periods feels like a waste, but this is coming from the guy who thought 15x4 squats with 800m sprints for "active rest" was a great idea. Suffice to say that youth is wasted on the young.

If it helps, my current stats:
Male, 21 years old @ 6'0", 146 lbs. For all intents and purposes, untrained.
Squat: 114 x 5
Deadlift: 184 x 5
Press: 79 x 5
Bench Press: 114 x 5

Any thoughts?

[Szymon]

Why don't you just do The Program 2 days a week insted of 3 ? Why complicate simple things ?

Starting Strength Training Programs

Why are you so underweigth ? This other sport you do demands from you to be so light ?

Between sets you should sit on you ass for 10 minutes and rest. Dips, pullups etc. is not rest.

Have you read the book ? It is a good place to start - read the book.

[bikesandcars]

The First Three Questions | Mark Rippetoe

IMO you are getting way ahead of yourself.

You have a LOT of progression left at your strength numbers before you need to worry about power cleans and accessory work outside of chins.

To progress on this program you really need to gain weight (muscle) and EAT

Why not just do the program 2 days a week until you plateau? Be patient and let the program work, think of where you want to be a year from now.
A) Squat 3x5, Bench 3x5, Deadlift1x5
B) Squat 3x5, Press 3x5, Deadlift 1x5

If you don't eat a lot more than you do now you will plateau earlier.

IMO: There's nothing wrong with doing a non SS workout Sunday, it's not optimal and not the program but it's better than nothing if you can recover from it: Add some legs to that, for example you could try a 10 round circuit of 5 chins, 10 pushups, 15 air squats.

[acedrake]

Ok, point by point:
Have you read the book? Got the audiobook, can highly recommend the narration
Why not do the program 2x per week? I was just concerned about not getting enough volume and detraining. You guys are probably right about overthinking it. I'm still progressing based mostly on technical improvement so I just wanted to make sure I had a good idea for the future.
Why are you so underweight? I ate 1800 calories a day and ran 40 miles a week until I got tendonitis, then cut to 20 miles and 1600 calories. Got my head right, recovered, and training for a marathon now. Real weight gain is going to probably wait till later but trust me, I'm about to put some people back to work in the dairy industry.

Further question: Does pressing both days make sense? Obviously it's something I have to see for myself but I much prefer the press to the bench press and I care more about my shoulder girdle strength than bra cup size.

Thanks so much for the advice.

[Szymon]

You need to eat more. I understand that you might be concerned about gainig wheigth but i think your running will benefit more from 10 pounds of more muscle and 50 pounds more on the bar. 1600 kcal a day is a portion that prisoners in german death camps during IIWW ware eating.

Bench press is good and if you don't have any injury that prevent you from doing it, you should bench. Your pecs will not get too big.

So, this is what you should do (in my opinion):
1. Eat more - with all that runnig, north of 3500 kcal is a good start. My buddy who was top 10 in the world racewalking was eating up to 2 pounds of pasta a day. That is like 2500 kcal.
2. Read the book and do the program as it is, whitout changing it for 2 days a week. It is not optimal but it should make you stronger.

[BastiatBB]

Due to non-strength athletic training commitments and work, I can really only make it into the gym 2 days a week (Tuesdays and Thursdays). I've set up the following routine and so far it feels pretty good after a couple days:

-Squat: 5x3
-Press: 5x5
-Deadlift: 5x1 (alternate with power cleans once deadlift is high enough)

Why isn't bench press in your plan? It should be. I agree with other respondents: Instead of your plan, just run standard alternating A/B days under SSNLP.

On Sundays I'm supplementing with bodyweight chin-ups/dips/pushups at local park.

Suggestion: Skip the park and make Sunday your third day in the gym running SSNLP.

[acedrake]

Ok, sounds good. Sorry for the noob questions, there's just a lot of info I've internalized that I haven't had a chance to really master yet. You guys are a huge help.
Also, as to the eating thing, I'm already well aboard that train. I don't know much about being a POW but after eating like that for about six months, I kinda miss food. Like, "put all buffets within 20 miles out of business" missing. I'm about to have some fun.
Thanks again.

[bikesandcars]

Ok, sounds good. Sorry for the noob questions, there's just a lot of info I've internalized that I haven't had a chance to really master yet. You guys are a huge help.
Also, as to the eating thing, I'm already well aboard that train. I don't know much about being a POW but after eating like that for about six months, I kinda miss food. Like, "put all buffets within 20 miles out of business" missing. I'm about to have some fun.
Thanks again.

Good to hear you want to eat, your body is probably telling you something (outside of the tendonitis).

I also don't want to blow out my knees because I can't squat the bar.

Have you thought about what marathon running does to you?

... training for a marathon now ...

Well that changes everything significantly doesn't it. That info is absolutely critical to any discussion about your program. Your training isn't just little snippets that you can separate into compartments that don't impact each other. Do you significantly care about your marathon time or do you just want to finish? You mentioned being "in-season" so I assume you care. Sounds like you could really benefit from a coach who's helped people do SS AND train for distance running. Where do you want to be training wise next month, next year, 5 years, 20 years?

There aren't many more diametrically opposed activities than low rep strength training and marathon running. What you are actually doing by marathon training is having a "sport" you are training for in addition to wanting to do SS for strength training. How much you skew one or the other depends on your fitness goals. You can be strong and athletic and run a decent layman marathon time, but you can't optimize both at the same time: Kenyan marathon champions don't do strong man competitions and Brian Shaw doesn't do marathons.

What if you focus on strength further out from your marathon and focus on running closer in? The issue with marathon training is it beats down your body and unlike a 5K you actually need to do a significant amount of LSD (long slow distance) training.

Doing this you can't take your SS NLP as serious, don't wreck yourself trying to get strong while you are also running, just use it to get as strong as you can.

I'm not qualified to give you a program, you need a coach, but here's a free internet opinion:

Monday: recovery day
Tuesday: SS-A immediately followed by a brisk 1 mile run (at once or broken into sprint sections)
Wednesday: recovery day,
Thursday: SS-B immediately followed by 5 sets of 10 yard prowler / sled drags (hard)
Friday: Recovery day
Saturday: Marathon training day, your weekly slow "long run"
sunday: 5K-10K tempo / recovery run followed by the activities you outlined

* Recovery days don't mean "do nothing" aim for 30-60 minutes of walking or general active movement, get it by walking / biking / rowing or just being active at work.

[Szymon]

Bikesandcars, what is the reason for 1 mile run after strength training ?

Recovery day IS the day when you do nothig. This is whole point of recovery.

[acedrake]

What if you focus on strength further out from your marathon and focus on running closer in?

That's my plan exactly, as I start to hit more miles in my training schedule I've planned to cut back on volume and only strength train once per week. I just don't have a lot of experience with barbell training, so I'm trying to make sure I'm at least being effective. After this race cycle shakes out I'm putting my shoes on the high shelf and lifting heavy.
You're 100% right about finding a coach, though. It's just been tough to find someone with that kind of Goldilocks experience. Most runners I know stick to push ups and box jumps. I think part of this might require a little guinea-pig work on my part.

Bikesandcars, what is the reason for 1 mile run after strength training ?

It's a good call, doing some short high-pace work immediately after a grinder gets your blood moving so that you can start healing. If you just immediately stop moving, you generally end up being one gigantic cramp the next day. The mental aspect doesn't hurt either.

All that being said, do you think it's still worthwhile to split between the press and bench press even though I'll only be hitting them once a week? I think I'd rather get more shoulder/stability improvements from the press rather than trade it for bench presses.

Thanks again.