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Thread: 852 Programming (Full Body HLM)

  1. #11
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    When I was real strapped for time I just did two lifts per day 3-4 days per week and supersetted them when I was in a real hurry. It was at this time that I accidentally experienced what Rip has described time and time again: as you get stronger less is more. I liked pairing the squat with the bench press and the press with the deadlift and I alternate one heavy set of 5 deficit deadlifts with one heavy set of 5 rack pulls each week until I had to move to pulling the deficit every three weeks. I squat once per week and heavy every other week for 3 total sets of 5. I've been making progress this way for over a year now and am stronger than I have ever been and have built muscle in the process. My workouts rarely exceed 45 minutes and, for those of you who are wondering, I've never taken a PED in my life. Now that said, I just realized that you have not shared your current lifts?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    When I was real strapped for time I just did two lifts per day 3-4 days per week and supersetted them when I was in a real hurry. It was at this time that I accidentally experienced what Rip has described time and time again: as you get stronger less is more. I liked pairing the squat with the bench press and the press with the deadlift and I alternate one heavy set of 5 deficit deadlifts with one heavy set of 5 rack pulls each week until I had to move to pulling the deficit every three weeks. I squat once per week and heavy every other week for 3 total sets of 5. I've been making progress this way for over a year now and am stronger than I have ever been and have built muscle in the process. My workouts rarely exceed 45 minutes and, for those of you who are wondering, I've never taken a PED in my life. Now that said, I just realized that you have not shared your current lifts?
    Robert,

    My "strapped for time" is actually in the opposite way that you're describing. When I'm home, I have can make time for a 2 hour workout (I am on my own schedule work wise). The problem is that during the majority of the week, I am traveling for work. Majority of the time is either in a car, or airplane getting to and from business meetings. These are not static trips to the same areas unfortunately, they can be almost anywhere in the western United States. Hotel gyms are not sufficiently equipped for strength training, and rarely can I find the time to locate a crossfit box (or similar) to get a decent workout in where I don't get yelled at for deadlifting heavy.

    This has left me sometime missing my midweek workout (hence my preference for HLM, missing L doesn't seem to derail me very much). This happens maybe twice a month. Otherwise I schedule my workouts around when I'll be home. I have a fully stocked home gym with rack, platform, 1200+ lbs of bumper plates, 6 high quality bars, kettlebells from .5-3 pood, bands, boxes, and a full set of dumbbells. This is obviously my preferred place to lift .

    I shared my 1RMs for lower body on the first post but I'll repost them here with my upper body lifts. My press and bench are sorely behind as I injured my rotator cuff as a teenager and my overall pressing strength has never fully recovered. These 1RM's are all estimated off recently performed 3 rep maxes. I am returning from almost a year layoff, and my best PR's of all time were roughly 20% higher on average a year ago. I'm a hardgainer (4k cals leaves my weight the same), and naturally skinny. Father is ~150 lbs. wet, and my mother is under 100. Kinda screwed genetically, 6 inch wrists, but hard work has paid off.

    38 yo Male current 1RM's@208 BW:
    Squat - 375 lbs.
    Deadlift - 430 lbs.
    Bench - 220 lbs.
    Press 125 lbs.

    In the interim of making a final decision, I've started GGW as this is similar enough to the HLM I was running before. So far, the Dead volume on day 1 seems to kill my recovery, and this is during the "easy" first couple weeks. Before switching to Day 3 only Deads with top set/back offs, I think I'll try straps on Day 1 to save my CNS.

    I'm still very interested in 8/5/2 and am still wondering if that would be a better fit.

    Appreciate the dialogue, and glad to know you're all natural. I've been tempted because of my bad genetics and it's prevalence in my area (CA). I've stayed away and made acceptable gains regardless.

    As always, your input is appreciated.

  3. #13
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    Go ahead run it out and see what happens. My opinion remains and I'd extend it by saying that your intermittent workout schedule is probably the bigger culprit than advancement on the adaptation curve. I'd try to plan a HEAVY squat and deadlift on the weeks before you travel since, chances are, it will take you a couple of weeks to recover from that anyways.

    I want to be clear in saying that I don't think being natural makes me anything more than just that. If you or anyone wants to go that route I DO NOT JUDGE in any way. My issue is with the programming advice given by uneducated, inexperienced (because they have taken drugs their entire training careers), and/or dishonest drug users. I'm not a terribly strong lifter but I believe that my progress closely resembles that of most men on the middle of the bell curve sitting on this board trying to sort this thing out. To give you specifics, my current lifts @ 5'9" ~185-190 lb:

    Squat: 405 x 5, last max was 440 probably PRing soon
    Deadlift: 465 x 5 off of a 1.5" deficit, haven't recently maxed but I'd peg it somewhere around 530 based on my 5RM rack pull
    Bench Press: 315 x 1
    Press: 225 x 1
    Chins - 15 in a row +100 x 3-5 reps

    My novice progression and some of my intermediate progress is posted in the training logs somewhere on this board. I wasn't a rank novice but I wasn't insanely strong either. I put 7 years in since then and counting.

    My issue is that the over-promotion of excess volume and training complexity is founded upon the experience of enhanced trainees. Those of us with normal recovery capabilities have a very different experience that is closer to that which Rip describes in the Grey Book and on countless podcasts. I accidentally figured this out when I was opening my gym and skipping workouts. This was 15 months ago and i'm continuing to add weight to the bar on a fraction of what I had been doing for 4 years up to that point. Why? Because It's Heavy. The fact that this eludes people still shocks me. Squatting 405 x 5 when you aren't very dense and over 35 kicks the shit out of you.
    Last edited by Robert Santana; 08-21-2020 at 09:37 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Go ahead run it out and see what happens. My opinion remains and I'd extend it by saying that your intermittent workout schedule is probably the bigger culprit than advancement on the adaptation curve. I'd try to plan a HEAVY squat and deadlift on the weeks before you travel since, chances are, it will take you a couple of weeks to recover from that anyways.

    I want to be clear in saying that I don't think being natural makes me anything more than just that. If you or anyone wants to go that route I DO NOT JUDGE in any way. My issue is with the programming advice given by uneducated, inexperienced (because they have taken drugs their entire training careers), and/or dishonest drug users. I'm not a terribly strong lifter but I believe that my progress closely resembles that of most men on the middle of the bell curve sitting on this board trying to sort this thing out. To give you specifics, my current lifts @ 5'9" ~185-190 lb:

    Squat: 405 x 5, last max was 440 probably PRing soon
    Deadlift: 465 x 5 off of a 1.5" deficit, haven't recently maxed but I'd peg it somewhere around 530 based on my 5RM rack pull
    Bench Press: 315 x 1
    Press: 225 x 1
    Chins - 15 in a row +100 x 3-5 reps

    My novice progression and some of my intermediate progress is posted in the training logs somewhere on this board. I wasn't a rank novice but I wasn't insanely strong either. I put 7 years in since then and counting.

    My issue is that the over-promotion of excess volume and training complexity is founded upon the experience of enhanced trainees. Those of us with normal recovery capabilities have a very different experience that is closer to that which Rip describes in the Grey Book and on countless podcasts. I accidentally figured this out when I was opening my gym and skipping workouts. This was 15 months ago and i'm continuing to add weight to the bar on a fraction of what I had been doing for 4 years up to that point. Why? Because It's Heavy. The fact that this eludes people still shocks me. Squatting 405 x 5 when you aren't very dense and over 35 kicks the shit out of you.
    Robert,

    Great info sir, and you are pretty much exactly where I want to be. 5 plate+ deadlift, 4 plate+ squat, and 3 plate Bench. Your press is incredible.

    I appreciate your comments on being natural. I learned this the hard way doing 5/3/1 BBB and crash/burning on the volume. I've since learned that it absolutely kills my already compromised recovery.

    I plan on taking the full run on GGW now, and doing what I can to help recover from the Monday deadlift volume. If the straps don't save me, I'll take it to Topset/backoff on Friday. I travel almost weekly, but its more like I'm gone Tues-Thurs. I always get the Monday and Friday workout in.

    As a natural, do you stick by the generally recommended supplement regimine? Currently I try and get 4500 cals, 200g protein, creatine, BCAAS (2 hours after every meal religiously), and fish oil nightly. I've tried Beta Alanine in the past but other than red tingly lips I didn't notice a difference (even after waiting for the 3 weeks "loading" period).

  5. #15
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    Which generally recommended supplement regimen? I take zero supplements other than an occasional pre- and creatine containing post-workout. I'm very bad at taking things consistently. That said, I generally recommend fish oil (if you aren't eating wild caught fish), whey protein, and possibly egg white or casein for bed time protein. Multivitamins if you are missing major food groups or dieting. Creatine if you can be consistent with it (I cannot).

  6. #16
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    Robert, this is pretty off topic but since you're talking about your lifts I wanted to ask a question. I've been watching your squats on instagram and noticed that you pause slightly right after you unlock your hips and knees. Is that intentional? If so, why? Just curious. Thanks.

  7. #17
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    Pause when? I set my back before descending so that may be what you are seeing. May be a slight hip flexion that occurs when I do that but I definitely do not pause once my knees break.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Pause when? I set my back before descending so that may be what you are seeing. May be a slight hip flexion that occurs when I do that but I definitely do not pause once my knees break.
    You're right. It's the setting the back I was seeing. Looking again I can't tell if the hips are actually unlocking but yeah, your knees haven't broken.

    Wasn't a criticism by the way. I watch every good low bar squat video I can and try to figure out what they're doing that I'm not. I'm going to work on setting my back as hard as you do.

  9. #19
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    Yep, it's a step that's often skipped and the resulting inefficiencies don't show up until it gets heavy. The common error is to assume that the back will sort itself out as it does when it's lighter. Truth is that when it gets Actually Heavy things stop taking care of themselves and it is your responsibility to actively contract each and every muscle involved (e.g. knees out, chest down, extended back).

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    My issue is that the over-promotion of excess volume and training complexity is founded upon the experience of enhanced trainees. Those of us with normal recovery capabilities have a very different experience that is closer to that which Rip describes in the Grey Book and on countless podcasts. I accidentally figured this out when I was opening my gym and skipping workouts. This was 15 months ago and i'm continuing to add weight to the bar on a fraction of what I had been doing for 4 years up to that point. Why? Because It's Heavy. The fact that this eludes people still shocks me. Squatting 405 x 5 when you aren't very dense and over 35 kicks the shit out of you.
    I have the same experience. As I get stronger, I find myself doing less. I just do 3 sets of squats on my volume day. I do less than 1 set of deadlifts a week on average. I do 0 assistance exercises. I'm only 28 -- but I'll feel a heavy 5RM squat for a few days after.

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