2 Factor Model question 2 Factor Model question

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Thread: 2 Factor Model question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2019

    Default 2 Factor Model question

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    Rip, at the risk of being told ďYouíre a GD IDIOTĒ like in the COVID thread, Iím posting this question. Iíve read the 2-Factor Model article, and have searched the forum for this question, but I was unable to find it. Iím sure itís been asked before, though.

    Iím a 45yo guy, just started out in SS about 4 months agoÖand Iím all in. Iíve never squatted 405x5x3. Iím at 225x3x2 (which is incredible progress for me). Iím ignorant to this, so be gentleÖ..

    My question is about programming for any type of endurance once a few things have happenedÖ1) strength gains have been made, and 2) the athlete is now in season. My question is more focused on football/team sports that require explosive movements with some recovery in between plays (not endurance sports).

    How does the 2-factor model account for strength in the fourth quarter of a game? The ability of a muscle to generate XX% of initial force as it is nearing the exhaustion point? Especially when thereís an opposing force (your competition) whoís exerting back. Is 3 sets of 5 enough for this athlete? And Iím not talking about a genetic freak, but your normal, HS athlete.

    I knowÖsomeone who can squat 300x5x5 will be stronger than someone who can do 200x20x2 (as an example, only). But is that true towards the end of the event? If not, does any programming change once the season would start? Doesnít the 200x20x2 have an advantage for the endurance of a muscle to perform?

    I have selfish reasons to ask thisÖ1) My son plays JV Football, and heís good. 2) I think I may have a 1% chance to get the SS method in front of the coaches at some point in the next year or so.

    Iím going to have follow up questions, Iím sure. Thanks for letting me ask this (repeatedly asked) question. Iím sure it gets old for many of you to answer the same things over and over and over.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    North Texas

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2019


    Thanks for this article, I've not seen it. I've also read the 11-page prowler article, and posted a separate question in that thread...this is all related, I know. And I'll still ask a couple of follow up questions here.....

    1) With "only" 2-4 weeks of prowler workouts, (I put it as "only" because it goes against how most teams train, which is a significant portion of the summer months...again, my reference is HS football), have you had any of your HS (or even some college) kids say that they've had any issues with shin splints or pulled muscles once their seasons (that require full out sprints/running during a play), due to the short conditioning period? Anecdotally only...shin splints and some pulled muscles are much higher with limited running/sprinting as part of the conditioning. It's been my opinion that the boys who went from not running at all (bc they've been a bit lazy) to LOTS of running with their coaches to get in shape, that caused the splints, etc. Think the Prowler conditioning, would alleviate that issue? Hope this convoluted question makes sense.

    2) Do you think, mid-season, it could work for the athletes to continue lifting 3 sets of 5? Or would there need to be any modifications? This does go back to my endurance question. If the prowler work takes care of the 'cardio' part of the equation as athletes are preparing for the season, how is the strength part of the equation mid-play addressed in Q4 of a game, or the last quarter of a season?

    Again, thanks to any of the coaches who address the questions above.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Central Nebraska


    I am obviously not a Starting Strength Coach, but I can (hopefully) answer your question.

    1. Shin splints and pulled muscles are usually dismissed with the acquisition of strength. Of course, other factors are at play here--most notably is running mechanics, which is technical as many movement patterns are, and landing on the heel rather than with a forefoot strike. The type of shoe and surface of the ground have some effect but to a much lesser extent. I have personal experience as an athlete in this age range during track and field, and the difference in strength was stupendously apparent. Moreover, the prowler conditioning itself will not alleviate the shin splints, but if it is coupled with NOT running (i.e. replaces the running), I guarantee that the shin splints will not be a problem anymore.

    2. I do not see a reason why the athletes should not continue lifting three sets of five outside of a time constraint or other logistical barriers. The largest obstacle that they will encounter is not eating enough. Most boys this age simply will not eat to recover from strength training AND football practice, but it is doable and best that it be done. You must rethink the concept of "fourth quarter strength." Fourth quarter strength is identical to the strength displayed in the previous three quarters because there is only one type of strength: the production of force against an external resistance. Strength training with barbells gets them strong for ALL of the quarters. Football practice--perhaps a bit of conditioning on the prowler too--makes them more capable to play to the best of their ability throughout the game. This is the essence of the two-factor model of sports performance.


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