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Thread: Chin up negative scheduling

  1. #1
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    Default Chin up negative scheduling

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    I have a couple quick questions on how best I should be programming assistance exercises into my training. Right now I train the program on Mon, Wed and Fri mornings before work. On Mon and Fri evenings I currently do Chin-up Negatives, and if needed Pin Presses and Bench Pin Presses.

    First off is how to best program chin-up negatives in. I'm 59yo and currently running the NLP, following the "Masters early novice program" 2B on page 195 of the Barbell Prescription book. I'm currently doing Lat Pulldowns on Wednesday mornings in place of deadlifts according to the plan laid out there; my body is still doing well with deadlifts on Monday and Friday so I'm still doing them twice a week. Since my goal is to get back to being able to unassisted Chins, should I be doing both Lat Pulldowns as prescribed in the book along with Negatives later in the day, or at the same time, or should the Negatives (or banded Chins) replace Pulldowns altogether? Are the Pulldowns still beneficial or would either of the actual Chins be better?

    Lastly, am I fitting the two Pin Presses into my training properly, doing them separately from my training so as not to interfere with the program? I only work them when I feel either my Press or Bench is about to get to a sticking point and it's seemed to help so far.

    Thanks for any help here.

  2. #2
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    I'm a little confused by what exactly your program is. Pin presses are not in the NLP. If your BP and PR are getting stuck there are a number of things to look at first (The First Three Questions | Mark Rippetoe) and if all is ok, then a shift to advanced novice programming is generally most useful (this will also generally not include pin presses).

    Putting the above aside for the moment, if you don't have BW chin-ups, you will likely need to give them dedicated focus with some more "slots" than are in the standard novice program (especially given your age). I'm not a big fan of negatives for this goal and if you have other options, I would use them. I would try and have at least 2 sessions each week that work to build your chins getting in around 25 total reps between assisted chins and lat pull downs.
    Last edited by Hayden-William Courtland; 11-23-2020 at 12:54 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the feedback Hayden.

    Sorry if I was unclear, I'm not using the Pin Presses as part of NLP; all my NLP work is done in the mornings. If I do any exercise from the book that's not part of my NLP, it's on Monday and Friday evening and those are treated strictly as assistance for the main exercises. Thanks for the first three question link, I was looking for it the other day but couldn't find it. I do follow it or at least try, and on the Press, it has come in handy a couple times as I occasionally have to add an additional minute or two in between working sets.

    Perhaps I interpreted the intent of using Pin Presses wrong, but I was under the impression from both reading and videos that Pins can be helpful to get past a sticking point by being able to overload and work the upper range of movement, to help strengthen the remaining part of the range of movement. Maybe I'm wrong here though it has seemed to help, and also encourages or motivates me by letting me remind myself I can push more weight than I am now.

    For the Chins, after working with the exercises yesterday some, I believe I'll swap out the Lat Pulldowns for Banded Chin-ups as I feel I'll get a better workout with those, and have the ability to progress further than Lat Pulldowns. But I'll keep the Pulldowns and Negatives (Rip's suggestion IIRC) as assistance moves for Chins. From what I remember reading, it seems that one set of up to 15 is about right for the NLP workout itself, then add other sets and work later? Or are you recommending even more sets and reps during my NLP session than what I've read is suggested? Hope I'm clear on that. And just so I know I'm not misunderstanding you, are you suggesting cutting my deadlifts back to one day a week and have two days of Chins? If that's best, I can do it but was kind of hoping I could wait a month or so on them until I get my DL's up above 300lb; right now at 250lb and 2.5lb increments each day.

    Thanks again,
    Steve

  4. #4
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    Yes, the Pins are used in the manner you describe, but usually if you need them in your NLP, something else is off.

    I was responding based on your comments that you don't have BW chins currently and want them with a bit more priority than the NLP gives them. To get them often requires more training than is listed in the standard NLP (where one week might only have them trained a single day). So, I would suggest getting them/pull downs in (around 20-25 reps) at least twice a week every week. I would not sacrifice the deadlift for this. Options are to squeeze some sets in on DL days or add another day just for some chins (like on Saturday if your split is a MWF).

    Some people struggle getting to 15 unassisted chins, so I would shoot for 10 initially and then you may need to start adding weights chins in to get to 15 unassisted.
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  5. #5
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    Thanks for the feedback and clarifications Hayden. This is reassuring to know that's what I was working toward, just wasn't sure I should plan that much lat work. I'll go on and add the lat pulldowns and either negatives or bodyweight rows in at nights and on weekends in addition to banded chins (working to unassisted). Thanks again.

    BTW - I suspect on the Press, what I'm suspecting is off is I'm needing to add in more rest time between my exercises, along with a 4min rest period between working sets on the press. And I will be looking at adjusting my diet, but I still have a bit of excess bodyfat to use before I bulk again; 5ft 10in, started NLP at 230lb in August and still at 230-235lb and not close to lean.

  6. #6
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    4 min of rest between PR work sets is likely not enough at this point. Experiment with 6-8 min.
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