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Thread: Question about advanced novice programming in ppst3

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
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    Question Question about advanced novice programming in ppst3

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    Hi Mr. Rippetoe. I'm novice lifter, have read your book for a while, and stopped reading right before the beginning of the intermediate section since I'm novice lifter so no need to read further until I become intermediate or more advanced lifter.

    My question is about advanced novice programming methods you described from page 169 to 174(advanced novice section).

    You wrote multiple examples of advanced novice programming (
    ----adding light squat day,
    ----one 5rm set + 2 back off sets,
    ----3x3 tapering method,
    ----normal 5 reps x 3 sets using frequency reduction,
    ----3x3 using frequency reduction,
    ----5rm set + 2 back off sets using frequency reduction
    )

    Advanced novice programming variables you used here are light squat day, back off sets, 3x3 tapering method, and frequency reduction

    And I got confused when I was reading this paragraph on page 174
    "The 3x3 and/or back-off method do not necessarily have to be run for every lift. In fact, it has been observed that the back-off method works better with squats, and the 3x3 method works better with bench presses and presses. Additionally, the two methods do not have to be employed simultaneously with the reduction in frequency. It could be that frequency is reduced for several weeks and the trainee continues to make progress on his 3x5 work. Moving to 3x3 or 1x5/2x5 could be prolonged for several more workouts. "

    Does this mean that I can program like this?

    Screenshot from 2021-03-02 06-05-33.jpg
    (back off method for squat + 3x3 method for bench press/press without using reduction in frequency)

    And like this?
    1234.jpg
    (back off method for squat + normal 3 sets of 5s for bench press/press without using reduction in frequency)

    I mean. Can I apply one of those programming variables(back off sets, 3x3 tapering method, and frequency reduction) to each lift individually?

    I think you might be confused reading this because of the long question and lack of my knowledge about programming, nonetheless, I desperately and precisely want to know how to approach to the advanced novice programming. I don't want to make any mistakes programming my training program.

  2. #2
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    Default

    These programming explanations are just concepts you can use to modify the stress-recovery-adaptation cycle. There aren't a lot of absolute rules about what you can and cannot do.

    Novices do not typically terminate their novice progression for all exercises on the same day - usually one exercise moves to advanced novice, then another, then another, and then they move into intermediate one by one. I have a client right now who has intermediate programming for his squats, novice programming for his press and bench, and advanced novice programming for his deadlift. This is common.

    On the other hand, keep in mind that we think about these concepts in terms of stress and recovery. So if you increase the stress on the squat, it may impact the deadlift as well. Typically, the stress from the squat and deadlift interact, and the stress from the bench and press interact. The stress from the press does not usually impact the squat much.

    Again, these are just concepts. Not rules. I would recommend you finish reading the book, because these concepts are explained more and more using the templates later in the book. You may not need "2 steps forward, 1 step back" for your squat, but these concepts will become more clear to you if you learn about it.
    Last edited by AndrewLewis; 03-01-2021 at 04:02 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Feb 2021
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    Fair enough. Thank you for your sincere and dedicated answer for this very basic question. It was big a-ha moment for me. So they are just concepts, and there are no absolute rules related to them(concepts) right?

    But, after this a-ha moment, I got another question that is, then, how do I know if my programming is correct or not?

    Is it just trial-and-error?
    (is my customized strength program okay if my linear progression continues, and is my customized program not okay if I stay in plateau?)

    Or, should I keep asking this problem to this strength community forum whether my customized program is correct or not?
    (Keep posting my program whenever there's any modification(s) to it for advice)

    How do I know if my customized program, which utilizes programming concepts/variables described in ppst3, is okay or not?

    How do I know whether I squeezed last drop of milk from linear progression in my novice phase or not?

  4. #4
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    These are good questions, but they are all basically answered by "logical trial-and-error" and "experience".

    You could follow the books as written and have good results for a long time, but knowing what changes to make when the time comes requires experience using these concepts in practice.

    Typically, you should keep doing a program that is working. The other side to programming though, is that you could make progress for a long time, believe it was a good program, but it could still be possible that it was suboptimal. I used to see this with people on 5/3/1. They were happy doing it, because they would add 10lb to their squat a month, so they assumed it was a good program. Then I would put them through the SS linear progression and they'd add 60lb to their squat in the first month, because they were still novices and didn't know any better.

    I would recommend you read through the books and try your best to answer the question "how does the problem I just ran into fit into the stress-recovery-adaptation model?" If you know the answer to that when problems arise, you will have a logical basis on which to make changes.

    Keep a workout log. That is the best way to accurately understand what has happened and to predict what needs to happen.

    If you're worried, get an online coach to handle your programming. You'll learn a ton and have confidence it's the most effective program.
    Starting Strength Indianapolis is up and running. Sign up for a free 30-minute coaching session.
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