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Thread: Novice trainer looking for programming advice

  1. #1
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    Apr 2021
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    Default Novice trainer looking for programming advice

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    First post, so apologies if I don't follow all the protocols just right.

    Height: 6'2"
    Weight: 224 lbs
    Age: 32
    Male

    Backstory is that excepting a high school weight lifting class for one semester, I had never stepped under a bar until 2020. Started NLP (which from what I gather means Novice Linear Program) in September of 2020 with A/B days: Squat, Press, Deadlift / Bench, Squat, Deadlift, all 5x3. My body weight back then was ~215. Started my work sets at 135 for squat and bench, 225 for deadlift, and 95 for press. To the best of my knowledge, I've done nearly everything in alignment with SS recommendations, except for the deadlift and clean, which I will explain. Diet is pretty good, relatively clean. Also, FWIW, I only got into the gym once in December because of illness.

    As for dl/clean, I struggled mightily with cleans in the beginning, and since I work out alone and I wouldn't trust anyone's advice where I lift, I just dropped them and kept dls. Didn't realize that one set of five was the recommendation for dl programming until two months ago, but even after realizing this, I kept doing 5x3 because I could keep adding weight and I felt somewhat confident in my form. I'm now at a point where it's taking me more than two or three days to fully recoup from deadlifts.

    I'm still adding weight to my lifts, though the progress has obviously slowed. What I'm looking for is input on my current program when to consider transitioning from NLP to something a little more advanced. Here are my current work sets, again, all at 5x3:

    Squat: 270 lbs
    Bench: 210
    Press: 140
    Deadlift: 385

    At this point, I add about 5 lbs per weeks to the deadlift and squat, and maybe 5 lbs every 10 days to bench and press. On days where I don't hit all of my reps, I add a fourth set to make sure I get 15 total reps one way or another.

    Because my lifts are still going up at what seems like a fine pace, I haven't much considered moving onto a more advance program. Also, seems like every day I find some new technique that needs work, and so I don't feel 100% comfortable with moving to more advanced programming. (For example, I spent three weeks in January with a very angry left elbow because of poor squat form...figured out how to clean it up, and then three weeks later began to struggle with weight distribution pushing the bar forward at the bottom of my squat for the next three weeks.) But I know that eventually I will need to reassess my NLP status--just not sure how to approach this.

    So to restate, looking for any programming advice related to my current routine, and also advice on how and when to approach intermediate programming. Many thanks.

  2. #2
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    You don't move to intermediate until you're through novice, but you're not following that to start with. It's all laid out in Practical Programming, including the novice linear progression.

  3. #3
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    Apr 2021
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    Alright, thanks for the link. My current routine was taken from SS 3rd, except for the deadlift/clean part. I'll try to internalize PP.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by oface View Post
    I'll try to internalize PP.
    Reading it should be enough.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Reading it should be enough.
    No, think I’ll internalize this one to replace that gallon of whole milk I didn’t drink today.

  6. #6
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    Apr 2021
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    Alright, PP secured and I'm...internalizing.

    Starting tomorrow, I'll revise my current routine to adhere strictly to a true NLP. If anyone is still reading this thread, have a follow-up question from the section on stalls/back-off workouts (p. 95-96), using my squats as an example.

    My work sets are currently at 270lbs. It's pretty typical for me, after hitting 5x3 at the previous weight, not to hit all of my reps next time in at the higher weight. For example, after moving to 270 for squat, reps the first time in were 4-3-3, then 5-4-3, and I expect to go 5-5-5 tomorrow.

    Does this fit the definition of a training "stall"? No, I'm not going up 5lbs/day, but the total squat tonnage is increasing. Should I consider dropping squat work sets by 10%, or would we still consider the slower-but-consistently increasing tonnage to be sufficient?

    (Maybe this will take care of itself after I drop the extra deadlift worksets I've been doing.)

    The answer might just be "get a coach", which I'll investigate. Or maybe I should buy a set of 1-pounders to keep in my gym bag? Again, thanks for any guidance.

  7. #7
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    I would run into the same problem if I were still increasing my squat by 5 lbs each workout. Perhaps you could try switching to 2.5 lbs increments and see what happens? If this worked you would be looking at a glorious 315 lbs squat in 6 weeks.

    Obviously I am a lot lighter than you, but I much prefer steady progress with smaller jumps than having to repeat workouts on a regular basis.

  8. #8
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    Are you still doing deadlifts 3x5 three times a week?

  9. #9
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by tiny&mighty View Post
    I would run into the same problem if I were still increasing my squat by 5 lbs each workout. Perhaps you could try switching to 2.5 lbs increments and see what happens? If this worked you would be looking at a glorious 315 lbs squat in 6 weeks.

    Obviously I am a lot lighter than you, but I much prefer steady progress with smaller jumps than having to repeat workouts on a regular basis.
    Thanks for the perspective. Since my last post, think I talked myself into microloading, but want to give it a few weeks following the program exactly before making this move. And yeah, 315 will be really cool when it happens. Agree that repeating workouts is uninspiring, but fortunately, at least one of my lifts goes up each time I go in, so for the last several weeks, I've just learned to appreciate whatever progress happens in a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Durbin View Post
    Are you still doing deadlifts 3x5 three times a week?
    No, dropped two work sets and am reincorporating cleans per Practical Programming. I just rewritten my plan for the next few weeks to mirror the example in the book of the former college football player who had a great 18 weeks. As mentioned above, plan is to follow that outline for a few weeks and see if I can get back to 5lbs/day. If not, I'll grab some 1s or 1.25s. I'm really weak in my upper body, so I'll probably need to microload for bench and press, anyways. We'll see.

    I'm glad I posted here, because I might not have noticed my deadlift mistake for a while longer. I was clearly confused on what "NLP" meant--I just read the A/B days in SS and my 'tism took over and I just started pushing and never revisited the topic until progress really slowed. I also just assumed that every book after Starting Strength was for intermediate or advanced lifters, so I just ignored them.

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