Accidentally reduced deadlift frequency too early Accidentally reduced deadlift frequency too early

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Thread: Accidentally reduced deadlift frequency too early

  1. #1
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    Default Accidentally reduced deadlift frequency too early

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    Stats:
    5,11
    198lbs
    28

    Hi I’ve just come back to weightlifting after a year or so off pursuing a different sport.
    As I’ve lifted before and done this program before I took what I now see to be a bit of a blaise approach.
    First I did rows instead of cleans…I know, I’ll clean up my act…
    Second I basically started on the later form of the novice progression where you do bench, ohp, deads, squats, power cleans, chins and back extensions (didn’t do those this time either).
    My best lifts running this program previous to this attempt was on a diet so my results weren’t that great, squat 140kg 3 sets of 5, deadlift 170kg 5 reps (chalk and double overhand) bench 87.5 kg for 3x5 and press 60 kg 3x5. My power clean I could never figure out the form very well and I was constantly resetting the weight. Chins I was up in the teens I think.

    So this time I did the program on a bulk, I went from 175lbs to 198lbs in about 2 months, in that time my squat went from 225 to 325 for 3x5. Deadlift went from 315 to 350, bench is only at like 185 because I’m dealing with an arm issue caused by improper squat form. Press is just below 135. Chins are starting to flag decreasing from about 14,10,8 on a good day to more like 11, 10, 8. And yes I’ve been doing rows got up to 77.5 kg.

    The problem is my squat has now stalled I only got 150kg/330lbs for one set of five, way below the point at which I should be transferring to this. I assume this is because I didn’t program properly, I also didn’t introduce light days till I was getting stuck at 330. And in the book it looks like I should not only be doing that for 3x5 but be deadlifting close to 400 lbs.

    So I’m guessing I should probably do some kind of reset and return to the former programming of just squats, bench, press, deadlift? And if so by how much should I reset my squat like 80%? Do I need to reset anything else?
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Apr 2021
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    Hi!

    I think you did a smart thing when gaining some weight. Im about 5,9 at 200lbs... never been so heavy in my life, and off course I am standing with some fat, but I feel healthy and strong.

    You are saying the problem is the squat stalling. It looks to me that this is the first time you stalled or failed some reps? The classic approach is: did you sleep enough, have I been eating enough, how long was my rest between sets?
    For a squat at around 150kg, you should be thinking about 5-8- maybe 10 minutes between sets. Dont rush it.
    If you failed you second set, I would maybe drop some weight, but not more than 5-10%, introduce the light wednesday, where you try 80% for 2 sets of 5.

    You need to feel your warmups too. If all your warmups on the squat are shit, you may be fatigued, wich the light wednesday would help you through. Your friday will look much better!
    But if it constantly is feeling shit, you should try the "one on, two off". That will give you 2 days between squat workout, and keeping the light day every other workout. Gives you about a PR every 6-7 days. That is working
    very good for me. But you are just above my weights on the squat and deadlift. And remember to keep your lifts separate. Dont change the bench, press and deadlift if its just your squat who needs a programming change!

    Dont take the numbers in the books like a template where you should be. This is not representative for all lifters, and we all need to program differently.

    I think you are doing great, and if you feel like deadlifting heavy more than 1-2 times each week, do it. Chins and backextension (or the powerclean) can be used instead of deadlifting if you feel some fatigue. You could try it every other workout for example.

    You dont have to do the powerclean. If you never want to try those lifts, and just want to be strong- you dont have to do them. Just deadlift.
    Another way to use a light pulling day is to do rackpulls or romanian DL. Just be carefull to not add to much weight since its easier to pull heavy from the pins. Those workouts can kill you hehe

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Åsali View Post
    For a squat at around 150kg, you should be thinking about 5-8- maybe 10 minutes between sets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Åsali View Post
    Dont take the numbers in the books like a template where you should be. This is not representative for all lifters, and we all need to program differently.
    You're contradicting yourself.


    OP, just eat more. You're sub 200 at 5'11. You can DL 2x a week for now as well.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman1 View Post
    Stats:
    5,11
    198lbs
    28

    Hi IÂ’ve just come back to weightlifting after a year or so off pursuing a different sport.
    As IÂ’ve lifted before and done this program before I took what I now see to be a bit of a blaise approach.
    First I did rows instead of cleansÂ…I know, IÂ’ll clean up my actÂ…
    Second I basically started on the later form of the novice progression where you do bench, ohp, deads, squats, power cleans, chins and back extensions (didnÂ’t do those this time either).
    My best lifts running this program previous to this attempt was on a diet so my results werenÂ’t that great, squat 140kg 3 sets of 5, deadlift 170kg 5 reps (chalk and double overhand) bench 87.5 kg for 3x5 and press 60 kg 3x5. My power clean I could never figure out the form very well and I was constantly resetting the weight. Chins I was up in the teens I think.

    So this time I did the program on a bulk, I went from 175lbs to 198lbs in about 2 months, in that time my squat went from 225 to 325 for 3x5. Deadlift went from 315 to 350, bench is only at like 185 because IÂ’m dealing with an arm issue caused by improper squat form. Press is just below 135. Chins are starting to flag decreasing from about 14,10,8 on a good day to more like 11, 10, 8. And yes IÂ’ve been doing rows got up to 77.5 kg.

    The problem is my squat has now stalled I only got 150kg/330lbs for one set of five, way below the point at which I should be transferring to this. I assume this is because I didnÂ’t program properly, I also didnÂ’t introduce light days till I was getting stuck at 330. And in the book it looks like I should not only be doing that for 3x5 but be deadlifting close to 400 lbs.

    So IÂ’m guessing I should probably do some kind of reset and return to the former programming of just squats, bench, press, deadlift? And if so by how much should I reset my squat like 80%? Do I need to reset anything else?
    Thanks
    First, get the gray book. It will help you game out some of your transitions.

    YouÂ’re making good progress, so keep at it. Resets are a natural part of lifting, but also make sure your diet is what it should be. The gray book talks about reset percentages, but IÂ’ve always used 20%. And thereÂ’s no need to reset any lifts that are still increasing.

    Wouldn’t worry about chins flagging too much—you gained a bunch of weight in a short period of time, so you’re basically doing weighted chins. Once your weight gain levels off, chins will probably edge up again. Also wouldn’t worry about what any particular lift “should” be. Just keep running the program.

    Sounds like your squat and clean form might be holding you back a little, so maybe consider some coaching. I’m right there with you: my squat form was really bad, which held back my bench. It is what it is—all we can do is keep learning or quit. I’ve been doing online coaching for a couple of months, which has improved my mechanics a lot.

    Lastly:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuman1 View Post
    So IÂ’m guessing I should probably do some kind of reset and return to the former programming of just squats, bench, press, deadlift?
    You need a light pull—deadlifting three days per week is not sustainable beyond the first few weeks of training, and once per week isn’t enough. Would encourage you not to give up on cleans (I actually snatch to avoid irritating my elbow). Olympic lifts are hard to learn on your own, but worth the effort. And in my opinion, you don’t need to drop the assistance lifts if you don’t want to. They just come after the main lifts.

    Necessary disclosure that IÂ’m not a coach. Just sharing based on my experience transitioning from NLP to intermediate a few times. IÂ’m actually back on NLP now after being away from the gym for about 6 weeks and chewing on a lot of the same stuff youÂ’re contemplating.

    Good luck.

  5. #5
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    Apr 2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by asm44 View Post
    You're contradicting yourself.


    OP, just eat more. You're sub 200 at 5'11. You can DL 2x a week for now as well.

    No sorry, that is not my intention.
    I see too many people stressing 2-3 minutes between sets, and since he already are failing sets, I just need to be sure. I can easily recommend 5-10 minutes rest,
    and I wasnt thinking about numbers in the books.

    If i was stressing about his numbers on the bar vs a template in the book, that would not be good. I dont see the rest recommendation as a template.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Åsali View Post
    I dont see the rest recommendation as a template.
    It's in the books.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Åsali View Post
    Another way to use a light pulling day is to do rackpulls or romanian DL. Just be carefull to not add to much weight since its easier to pull heavy from the pins.
    For the vast majority of people, rack pulls as a light day exercise is inappropriate, especially during linear progression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Åsali View Post
    You dont have to do the powerclean. If you never want to try those lifts, and just want to be strong- you dont have to do them. Just deadlift.
    This is not great advice. While technically true, you're missing out by not learning and doing the power clean and snatch. The power clean and snatch contribute to the other lifts and daily life in a way that the slow lifts do not on their own.

    Also, what's the problem with learning how to power clean?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by stef View Post
    It's in the books.
    Yes I know. Sorry I don't understand why this suddenly became a subject? Am I saying something wrong?
    Since Im Norwegian, maybe I use some wrong words etc... In that case, I apologize if my friendly advise could be mistaken.

    My concern, and yes it because I have the books, is when he says : ".....I was getting stuck at 330. And in the book it looks like I should not only be doing that for 3x5 but be deadlifting close to 400 lbs."
    That, to me, looks like he is referring to the numbers in the PPSS on page 90-92, and I just said he shouldn't be caught up in those numbers. It even state that on page 92: "it is not necessarily the norm to make progress this rapid and consistent..." So that's the reason for my advise.

    Regarding the rest between sets, I only suggested that he should be resting enough, and 5-8, maybe 10 minutes is what he possible need to be doing. And yes, those advises are taken from the same book, but I don't see
    how I'm contradicting myself, and again your quote of my comment? How is this helping ?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewLewis View Post
    For the vast majority of people, rack pulls as a light day exercise is inappropriate, especially during linear progression.



    This is not great advice. While technically true, you're missing out by not learning and doing the power clean and snatch. The power clean and snatch contribute to the other lifts and daily life in a way that the slow lifts do not on their own.

    Also, what's the problem with learning how to power clean?

    I didn't think about that, regarding the rack-pulls. You are right, that was maybe not a good advise. I have been doing them myself with low weights on resting days, just to
    focus on technique, but even if I have had success, doesn't mean everybody will have it.


    And for the power clean, I didn't say it was a great advise, just mentioned that you don't need to do them. Its even been said by SS in th YT clips/videos.
    For me, it may seem crazy but my local gym does not allow anything that looks like you are going to drop weights, and they are checking every 30 minutes if anybody lifts heavy deads, or using chalk.
    This resulted for me to just train at home. Im almost there where I can do very lift (about doing some welding outside for a power rack project), but still I don't have the space or possibility to do cleans other
    than outside in the summer. I may consider doing them in the future, if I found ways to do them, but as mentioned in the beginning of this thread, he said himself he struggled with resetting weights and his technique.

    A better advise from me would may be that he should find a coach or something to help him. Im sorry again, I was just trying to give some advise but I feel this thread is more about picking apart some friendly advises,
    and I don't see how it is helping?

    I dont have a problem with learning the power clean- I really wish I could, and that It was a more normal exercise where I live. But nobody does it, and its a bit sad.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Åsali View Post
    Im sorry again, I was just trying to give some advise but I feel this thread is more about picking apart some friendly advises,
    and I don't see how it is helping?
    I'm not disparaging your intentions, but good intentions can lead to bad outcomes. Friendly or not, bad advice is bad advice.

    The problem with a blanket statement like "you don't need to do power cleans" without having an actual discussion with the person about it in real time is that you're supporting their belief that power cleans are not important even if that's not what you meant to imply. Ambivalent lurkers - who you don't get to talk to in an actual conversation - will read it and this will further support the side of them that doesn't want to do power cleans.

    No one NEEDS to do power cleans, just like no one NEEDS to squat, but for the vast majority of people, their lives will be better if they choose to do so.

    You'll find that we're a pedantic ground here. If your explanations are not precise and accurate, I'm going to say something. That doesn't mean I hate you or want you to leave. I just want to make sure the information people are receiving is accurate. I expect anyone else who thinks I'm wrong to do the same to me.
    Last edited by AndrewLewis; 10-05-2021 at 03:10 PM.
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