Form and Programming Check: Squat and DL Form and Programming Check: Squat and DL

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Thread: Form and Programming Check: Squat and DL

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    5

    Default Form and Programming Check: Squat and DL

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    I switched from the 3-day "classic" Texas Method to the 4-day split a few weeks ago. So far, my numbers in lb are:

    • Squat 1x5: 345
    • Deadlift 1x5: 360
    • Bench 1x5: 220
    • Press 1x5: 140


    My program that I am running is below. Exercises with slashes (/) I alternate each week.

    Monday
    • Intensity Bench (1x5)
    • Volume Press (5x5 / 3x8 at ~90%)
    • Close-grip Bench
    • Weighted Dips

    Tuesday
    • Intensity Bench (1x5)
    • Volume Squat (5x5 at ~90%)
    • Power Clean / RDL
    • Weighted / Bodyweight pullups

    Thursday
    • Intensity Press (1x5)
    • Volume Bench (5x5 / 3x8 at ~90%)
    • Incline DB Press
    • LTE

    Friday
    • Intensity Squat (1x5)
    • Intensity Deadlift (1x5)
    • BB Rows


    I added conditioning, but I may have overdone it. I am doing 20 HIIT workouts (running / swimming) 3-4 days on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday (not the day before lower body). Should I cut the frequency down to twice a week?

    I have been struggling the last 3 weeks with deadlift. for the first 2 weeks, I could tell my form was breaking down on the last 2 reps, and last week I was only able to get 3 reps out of 5. Every other lift is still progressing like before, but the deadlift is a grind. What is the best way to continue with deadlifting progression? I have seen guidance to deload, switch to 2x3, do intensity DL before volume squat (that sounds horrible).

    Squat form check
    Squat Form Check - YouTube

    Deadlift form check
    Deadlift Form Check - YouTube

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    221

    Default

    Your squats are high. DL you are dropping your ass.
    Bigger issue is you aren't doing the program and probably aren't recovering. To me it doesn't look like you need to be doing the TM. Have you run out your NLP?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Garage of GainzZz
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    Default

    Squats are high. Back is loose. Bar is sitting on your hands.

    Deadlift is several singles with very short rests.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PlumpChump View Post
    I switched from the 3-day "classic" Texas Method to the 4-day split a few weeks ago. So far, my numbers in lb are:

    • Squat 1x5: 345
    • Deadlift 1x5: 360
    • Bench 1x5: 220
    • Press 1x5: 140


    My program that I am running is below. Exercises with slashes (/) I alternate each week.

    Monday
    • Intensity Bench (1x5)
    • Volume Press (5x5 / 3x8 at ~90%)
    • Close-grip Bench
    • Weighted Dips

    Tuesday
    • Intensity Bench (1x5)
    • Volume Squat (5x5 at ~90%)
    • Power Clean / RDL
    • Weighted / Bodyweight pullups

    Thursday
    • Intensity Press (1x5)
    • Volume Bench (5x5 / 3x8 at ~90%)
    • Incline DB Press
    • LTE

    Friday
    • Intensity Squat (1x5)
    • Intensity Deadlift (1x5)
    • BB Rows


    I added conditioning, but I may have overdone it. I am doing 20 HIIT workouts (running / swimming) 3-4 days on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday (not the day before lower body). Should I cut the frequency down to twice a week?

    I have been struggling the last 3 weeks with deadlift. for the first 2 weeks, I could tell my form was breaking down on the last 2 reps, and last week I was only able to get 3 reps out of 5. Every other lift is still progressing like before, but the deadlift is a grind. What is the best way to continue with deadlifting progression? I have seen guidance to deload, switch to 2x3, do intensity DL before volume squat (that sounds horrible).

    Squat form check
    Squat Form Check - YouTube

    Deadlift form check
    Deadlift Form Check - YouTube
    Hips are way too low on the deadlift, and you are rolling the bar an inch forward when you drop them so much.

    Squat looks pretty high but I'm not in a position to critique someone else's squat.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ23 View Post
    Your squats are high. DL you are dropping your ass.
    Bigger issue is you aren't doing the program and probably aren't recovering. To me it doesn't look like you need to be doing the TM. Have you run out your NLP?
    I see that looking at my squats now. I felt very off lifting that day, and I'm going to go over the book for some refresher cues. That was a bad workout day, so I hope those are the reasons for the form issue I'm going to redo these numbers this week and see if it looks better. If not, I'll drop weight to hit depth.

    I am doing the 4-Day TM (version 2) in the book, and using Andy Baker's advice to do an intensity workout before volume work. I see now that I read that wrong and intensity deadlift is before volume squats. I'll have to make that change. I started struggling with the Starting Strength program around 290/295 for squat (probably my fault due to lack of rest).

    Quote Originally Posted by Satch12879 View Post
    Squats are high. Back is loose. Bar is sitting on your hands.

    Deadlift is several singles with very short rests.
    Thanks for pointing these out. I did not see how much my grip sucked. I think I am going to work on my squat form tomorrow and try these numbers again this week. If it still looks bad, I will go down in weight.

    What do you mean with the deadlift? I thought you were supposed to reset every rep.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMiller1991 View Post
    Hips are way too low on the deadlift, and you are rolling the bar an inch forward when you drop them so much.

    Squat looks pretty high but I'm not in a position to critique someone else's squat.
    I notice that on my deadlift now. I will have to look into the deadlift setup again. Do you have any useful cues for that problem?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PlumpChump View Post

    I notice that on my deadlift now. I will have to look into the deadlift setup again. Do you have any useful cues for that problem?
    I struggle with the same issue and am working through that now, I'll cede to actual coaches for cues, but one that has been (slowly) helping me keep my ass up is to keep tension in the legs during the setup, almost like starting to push the floor away before I am even set (though obviously very sub maximal). Then I pull myself into a neutral back position and start the lift. I'm still dropping my hips a little much (as evidenced by the bar rolling forward slightly) but it is getting better.

    Here is me working on those cues doing some fairly light technique work with doubles (worked well for me during that short window as it allowed me to go back to deads every other workout instead of once a week). 405 new form - YouTube

  7. #7
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    Sep 2020
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    221

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    1) Why are you doing TM when you haven't run out of NLP space?
    2) the 5 steps to a deadlift are pretty foolproof to get you 90% of the way there, problem is you need to follow every word.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    270

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumpChump View Post
    What do you mean with the deadlift? I thought you were supposed to reset every rep.
    You are correct that you must reset every rep . . . but you must keep your hands on the bar for the whole set. If your hands come off the bar between the second and third rep of five, for example, that counts as a double and a triple, not a set of five. It may seem overly strict, but I will tell you that there is a temptation to prolong the work set. It's a better idea just to get the set done, and keeping your hands on the bar is part of moving the process along. All the coaches say it--I resisted the advice, but have found that it's better just to do what the coaches say and get the set done.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    5

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    Squat - 345 attempt 2

    Deadlift - 365 attempt 2

    Here are my second attempts I did on Saturday. Some info I did not supply in my OP:

    Male
    Age:25
    Bodyweight: 150 -> 207 lb

    For the squat, I focused on getting lower and trying to keep my wrists straight. When I try to go lower than in the video, I feel like I am getting buttwink. If this is still not low enough, what changes can I make to keep a neutral spine? As for the wrists, it looks like I can keep them straight for 2-3 reps, but I think this might be something I will have to focus on to make it a habit. I did fell a lot more tight/stiff when I did sets with wrists straight.

    For the deadlift, I focused on trying to keep my hips higher. I felt very different and I noticed I am still dropping them some, but the weight moved much easier that day.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMiller1991 View Post
    I struggle with the same issue and am working through that now, I'll cede to actual coaches for cues, but one that has been (slowly) helping me keep my ass up is to keep tension in the legs during the setup, almost like starting to push the floor away before I am even set (though obviously very sub maximal). Then I pull myself into a neutral back position and start the lift. I'm still dropping my hips a little much (as evidenced by the bar rolling forward slightly) but it is getting better.

    Here is me working on those cues doing some fairly light technique work with doubles (worked well for me during that short window as it allowed me to go back to deads every other workout instead of once a week). 405 new form - YouTube
    I took your advice, but one thing I noticed is that it is harder to set a straight back without dropping my hips. I assume this is because of tight hamstrings, but should this get easier over time?

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ23 View Post
    1) Why are you doing TM when you haven't run out of NLP space?
    2) the 5 steps to a deadlift are pretty foolproof to get you 90% of the way there, problem is you need to follow every word.
    1) I had been stalling out on the Starting Strength program, even after resetting 2-3 times. I decided to just move on to TM after stalling again after I got COVID and had several weeks in a couple months where I had to travel for work. I have had consistent progress with TM, and I would rather stay here for as long as I can rather than try to get a few more weeks of starting strength.

    2) I went over the deadlift setup steps again, and I think that did help my form issues. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Killmond View Post
    You are correct that you must reset every rep . . . but you must keep your hands on the bar for the whole set. If your hands come off the bar between the second and third rep of five, for example, that counts as a double and a triple, not a set of five. It may seem overly strict, but I will tell you that there is a temptation to prolong the work set. It's a better idea just to get the set done, and keeping your hands on the bar is part of moving the process along. All the coaches say it--I resisted the advice, but have found that it's better just to do what the coaches say and get the set done.
    Gotcha. I'll try to keep my hands on the bar. One thing I do (that may be stupid) is switch hands in mixed grip after the third rep. My thinking is that would help to resist a muscle imbalance over time, but I am probably overthinking that.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
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    starting strength coach development program
    Notes on your squat: You are looking at yourself in the mirror, this KILLS your hip drive and also causes you to have a more upright back. Look down (4-5 feet in front) and get more bent over first. Also your stance may be a bit wide, but for my untrained eye its hard to tell from that angle, maybe someone could confirm that one for ya.

    Notes on your deadlift: You are dropping your hips too deep. When you are setting your back your hips are getting too low which causes the bar to roll forward. Learn to set your back WITHOUT moving the bar. The bar is not to be moved after you get set up 1 inch away from the bar because otherwise it is away from your midfoot and is therefore not as strong. Keep your hips higher and DO NOT move the bar.

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