NLP Analysis & Winding down NLP? NLP Analysis & Winding down NLP?

starting strength gym
Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: NLP Analysis & Winding down NLP?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Round Rock, TX
    Posts
    56

    Default NLP Analysis & Winding down NLP?

    • starting strength seminar february 2022
    • starting strength seminar april 2022
    • starting strength seminar june 2022
    TLDR; After two injury & form related resets, 8 non rehab months on NLP I'm starting to fail and severely grind on multiple lifts again.
    For the last several months I drifted to a twice / week A/B program Deadlifting every other, not squatting on DL days, or DL on squat days. Sustained progress well past prior reset and expect to hit 405 on DL this month. Looks like Bench needs to drop to 2.5lb jumps, and DL may be close to failed reps. I think I'm near end of this run of NLP, but not sure what to do programming wise for the immediate term? Lower weight progression and keep on NLP, get strict on one of the advanced novice plans? (2d?) Or start to transition to intermediate?



    I've never done the version with anything less frequent than DL every other workout. But then I saw an article from Andy talking about regardless of where someone is on weight progression after about 8 months it is probably time to move to intermediate programming. What should I do in the immediate term? Advice appreciated.
    -------

    Age: 46
    BW: 275lbs, Height 5'8", 51" gut.
    Protein: 180-200gr/day Carbs: 200-300/day. Fats 50-125/day. (I certainly have days where I miss these numbers, but probably less than 15% of the time).
    Sleep: CPAP, 7-10 hours depending on work/weekends. I do not have the best sleep quality. Need 9-10 hours to feel good.
    Rest between work sets: 5 - 6 Min


    Latest workouts (all PRs):
    DL: 395x5
    Bench: 235x5x2, 235x4
    Press: 157.5x5x3
    Squat: 340x5x3
    Lat PD: 150x10x4
    -----

    Beginning NLP:
    Age: 45
    BW: 285lbs, Height 5'8", 56" gut.
    DL: 115x5
    Bench: 125x5x3
    Press: 70x5x3
    Squat: 160x5x3

    -----

    The long version of the story so far...

    2A: 4 Weeks Total

    11/24/20 - 12/19/20 (Approx 4 weeks)
    Definitely started DL too light. And took a long time to catch up to squats even with some catch up 40lb jumps during this time.
    Injured side/lat. In hind sight this pain getting up from the bench was present on right side pretty early on (First two weeks of NLP).
    Later discovered my DL form sucked bad. Probably contributor to the injury.
    Eventually felt popping and pain when pressing, then pain so bad it interfered with sleep and getting up from the couch.
    Consulted with SSC on rehab plan.
    Took 5 weeks to get DL back to pre-injury PR of 295x5 (12/28/20 - 01/27/21).
    Late January, attended Self-Sufficient Lifter Camp at Wichita Falls.


    2? (Elements of 2B/2C/2D): 11 Weeks Total (With Coach)

    2/22/21 - 5/10/21
    2/22/21 started working with online SSC. He changed programming to include the SGDL as a power clean substitute from 2B program.
    Form was still bad on DL which caused failed attempt at 330x5. He reset me and worked on form correction. Deadlift was hanging in front of me and I was not pressing "legs into the ground".
    Squat was also somewhat reset and a light squat day introduced to work on form. Depth was too shallow.
    Low bar was murder on my elbows as the weight kept increasing. Finally reverted to high bar. Have not gone back to low bar.


    04/07/21 Failed to get all reps on press, ended up doing 137x5x2, 137x4
    04/21/21 Coach moved press to 2 sets of three at workset weight and then three more sets of three 10 lbs less than workset.
    04/09/21 Lat PD introduced. But this was being done on SGDL days. So really still a 2B program as far as DL frequency.
    05/10/21 Pain in right shoulder socket had been building for a good four weeks. Just not getting better. Severely interfering with sleep.
    Coach encouraging me to get SSB and forgo regular Squats mostely. (I didn't want to go that route). All lifts seem to aggravate the shoulder.
    MRI came back with Mild infraspinatus and subscapularis tendinosis. No evidence of rotator cuff tear.
    Moderate hypertropic degenerative acromioclavicular arthrosis with reactive marrow edema across the joint.


    Pain was now interfering with daily life and sleep. Decided to convalesce for a month. Ended with DL PR of 345x5 on last workout.
    (In hind sight the pain did improve during convalescence/light PT band work, but never got significantly better until a few weeks back into training. Probably should have only given it 2 weeks then started again. When the pain finally did start getting better, it got better fast.)
    2A (Rehab/Reset/New PRs): 25 Weeks So Far

    06/12/21: Return to training with big deload DL (~30%) started back at 225x5.
    Went back to program 2A to get back to previous PRs, 15lb jumps then 10lb until 330x5 then 5lb jumps on DL. I never started back on the SGDL as the "B" DL day as I was progressing just fine with 5lb jumps. I did retain the Lat PD on the "B" day however. Probably the extra recovery from only DL and Squatting once/week each? At any rate I was on a quest for 405 and as long as the progression was going, I was sticking with it.


    I accidentally stumbled into two workouts per week while trying to start a 4 day/week program due to feeling pretty destroyed with Squats & DL on same day. Ended up on basically a twice/week 2A plan, but no squatting on DL day, and not DLing on squat day. This just sort of happened by accident. On the few days I still did both Squat and DL, I was feeling still feeling pretty destroyed and the workouts were like 2.5 hours. Also on the M/W/F schedule my shoulders always felt beat up. I was really enjoying not feeling destroyed after workouts, plus the now sub 2 hour workouts were much easier to fit into my schedule. Without the other big lift I had energy to do something else so I added some accessory lifts.



    Things now looked like this (Workouts every 3-4 days, sometimes 5-6).
    A: Deadlift / Press / Curls
    B: Squat / Bench / Lat Pulldown / Triceps Cable Pushdown


    One thing that really surprised me is that I was able to make 5 lb jumps on Bench, and and maintain 3 sets of 5 for Press, even past my previous PRs. (Previously I had stalled out Bench at 202.5 on 2.5lb jumps, and on Press five sets of three and had to move to five sets of three with backoff sets.)
    11/13/21: DL 390x5, Last two reps were a struggle and involved some grinding.
    11/22/21: DL 395x5, every rep was a serious grind. It probably didn't help with my mental focus that I was sharting a little bit every rep. (Thank god I work out at home). Also the bar kept rolling out of position when I set it down.
    11/29/21: DL 395x5, Repeat of last time as I didn't think I could do 400x5 and wanted to compare 395 to last session. Reps 1-3 went up slow but good. Rep 4,5 were a grind. I positioned the deadlift mats differently which seemed to help with the bar wanting to roll too far forward when setting it down.
    12/03/21: I knew I was playing with fire keeping the 5lb jumps on bench, as the last workout of 230x5x3 was a grind on the last reps, and bar speed was much reduced.
    But I wanted to see what would happen. Would I fail, or make it. Either way I was pretty sure I'd need to go back to 2.5lb jumps next time. I almost made it. I did 235x5x2, 235x4.
    I don't remember the last time I was this sore after a workout. New PR on squats as well (340x5x3)


    My big question now is what should I do?


    From reading on the forum, articles, and a re-read of BBpx & PPBT3, it sounds like my total calendar time of 13 months since starting the program minus the 5 months of reset/rehab for 8 months of actual net new progress is pushing the timeline most people can do NLP. So, I've probably just about run its course.
    I've never done the 2C/2D program as written in BBP (with the deadlift only once in four or five workouts). Should I try that to see if I can run NLP longer? Or is it time to look at intermediate?
    Last edited by Erich Weidner; 12-06-2021 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Significant typo in Bench PR/edits for clairity

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    692

    Default

    What should you do?

    Re-read both Barbell Prescription and Practical Programming again, as you've stated that you've done. The transitioning from NLP to Intermediate is pretty well outlined in BBRx (including programs 2C/2D). Re-read while you are running out 2C/2D and pick your Intermediate program of choice (hint: a strict TM is not for you unless you are retired/unemployed and can turn back the clock 15-30 years, but a modified TM [like Nick's Press programming] can help inform your programming choices).

    BTW, I found that extra couple of days of recovery in 2C/2D to be very helpful in moving the deadlift forward a few more weeks. But that's all you'll get, a few more weeks. So start planning your Intermediate approach now.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    201

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Erich Weidner View Post
    11/29/21: DL 395x5, Repeat of last time as I didn't think I could do 400x5
    You should listen to the latest Starting Strength Radio podcast. It's almost like this post was tailored to present every excuse to bail on the NLP that was addressed in that podcast.

    You are likely nearing the end of the NLP but you are not AT the end.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Round Rock, TX
    Posts
    56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ23 View Post
    You are likely nearing the end of the NLP but you are not AT the end.
    I agree completely. But I'm not sure what I should do to finish out NLP. I drifted from the templates... or rather never did the versions which had DL less frequent than every other workout. So trying to figure out what to do at this point.

    Also, FWIW, I'm not in any rush to go intermediate. I then have to pick a program and don't know which one to do. I just am starting to feel like I'm close to having no choice. Which is good, and bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Anders View Post
    What should you do?

    Re-read both Barbell Prescription and Practical Programming again, as you've stated that you've done. The transitioning from NLP to Intermediate is pretty well outlined in BBRx (including programs 2C/2D). Re-read while you are running out 2C/2D and pick your Intermediate program of choice (hint: a strict TM is not for you unless you are retired/unemployed and can turn back the clock 15-30 years, but a modified TM [like Nick's Press programming] can help inform your programming choices).

    BTW, I found that extra couple of days of recovery in 2C/2D to be very helpful in moving the deadlift forward a few more weeks. But that's all you'll get, a few more weeks. So start planning your Intermediate approach now.
    I am pretty confident that TM is not in my future.
    I'll admit I'm gravitating to something that doesn't have me squatting and deadlifting on the same day. But since I've only ever done that with both lifts "heavy" on NLP, maybe it won't be so bad? No way to know, but to try something and see how it goes I guess.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •