Programming while lifting

[Flavius]

Hello, my name is Flavius, 34, 5'5, currently 160 lbs, down from 180 in the last couple of months

Because I put on to much fat during bulking(dirty bulking), I want do lose fat, and as I accumulated a lot of fat, losing 20 lbs seems to not be enough, because I still have some bodyfat, especially, around the midsection; I don't want to lose fat for aesthetic reasons only, I want to lose this fat because of health reasons, I have started to get bad bloodwork markers
- cholesterol is above normal
- fasted blood glucose is just above normal, 106, normal is 70-105
- lower testosterone than when I was at 145 lbs,low-carb,abs,etc in 2018
- my energy levels are down
- my libido is down

Low carbs doesn't seem to be an option anymore, because I just need the carbs for strength training, I lost 20 lbs gradually, but my diet wasn't that strict, so I didn't lose all the fat I intended; I want to get really strict with my diet right now, the plan is to only eat 2 meals a day, breakfast before training, supper after training, and a whey protein shake 1-2 h before bed;

With this set up, I get about 2300-2500 kcal a day, and about 160 g of protein

I don't want to cut this month, just maintenance, because I feel exhausted, and I need a maintenance period before i go any further
I just want to go down to 155-150 until june, and then maintenance until august, and starting september do a bulk, clean this time, go to 170 and then back down to 160-165 and stay there for the foreseeable future, with 2 meals a day

Given the fact that I will soon be in a caloric deficit, and currently maintenance, what program is appropriate in this situation?

I am an intermediate, my best lift were at 180 a few month ago:

squat 355 3 sets of 1
press 152 five sets of 1
deadlift 370 one set of 3
bench I stopped benching shortly before setting these PR's because I hurt my neck during triceps extensions, and to this day, I get headaches and neck pain after benchpress and triceps extensions, and OHP sometimes if its really grindy, but that's another conversation for another post

a month ago or so I did the following at 165

squat 310 3 sets of 2
press 132 five sets of 1
deadlift 350 one set of 2

after this I did a 20% reset on all my lift because I was just not recovering that well, so my current lift are(last week):

squat 255 one set of 5
press 114 one set of 5
deadlift 295 one set of 5

My program for a long time has been(the one i set my best PRs):

monday:

squat 5RM
press 3-5X5

wednesday:

Press 5 singles
squat 3X5

friday:

deadlift 5RM
chins 3-5x5

Now, going 2 meals a day, and having lost all this weight i just feel exhausted, and I feel I cannot even do this program anymore

I did read the gray book, and I did try the 4 day split(intensity/volume), but I just could not recover that well from it, even on a caloric surplus, it seems like those off days between training days has worked out the best for me, and there was no way I could do the 3 days texas method, so I ended up with the program up above; I know its not in the book, but it got me to some decent numbers, and I could recover from it

Now looking in the book, at the intermediate programming I was thinking between one lift a day(3/week) and the 4 day split(heavy/light)
I kinda lean towards the one lift a day,3/week, because I just like the offdays between training days help me out with recovery;

So the book says

Monday: Squat+assistance
wednesday: bench(I will do press instead)+assistance
friday: deadlift+assistance

So my question is, because I no longer have intensity, and volume, what sets and reps should I aim for on the main lifts, and what assistance do I do, what reps and sets?; also, given the fact I cannot do close-grip bench and triceps extensions(they hurt my neck), also dips and lateral raises hurt my shoulders, what exactly am I left with other that chins?; I ask because I didn't use almost any assistance other than chins during most of my training, as most of them hurt me in some way or another

Thank you!

[Flavius]

Now I can see just how exhausted and hurt my neck really is, I just posted a thread called programming while lifting...
What I meant to write was programming while cutting...

[GioFerrante]

You're at way too low of a bodyweight. You don't need to be cutting calories when you're 5'5" and 165 lbs - you need to be gaining bodyweight. You would need to cut only if your bodyfat gets too high and that would be after the end of your linear progression, which you have not completed.

"squat 310 3 sets of 2
press 132 five sets of 1
deadlift 350 one set of 2"

^ These are not the numbers of an intermediate lifter, they are novice numbers, even before you lost a bunch of weight. These are also not the rep ranges you use during the novice program, which are sets of 5. You are also doing shit that isn't in the novice linear progression, like triceps extensions and lateral raises - shit that you can do later after completing the NLP, and got yourself hurt.

Are you properly retracting your shoulders during the bench press? You shouldn't be putting a bunch of weight on your head. The touch point is not on the neck, it's on the retracted shoulder blades/upper back area.

Are you retracting your shoulder blades on the dips? That could be the cause of your shoulder pain. You need to retract and depress them just like when you bench press. If you still can't do dips and can't bench, I'd just press every workout.

How long as your neck been injured? If it is a muscle issue (spasm), it can take several weeks to heal. I went through that after a wonky jerk about a month and a half ago. You have to not mess with it while it heals. If the neck doesn't heal on its own within 4 weeks, I'd get it looked at by a doctor. The fact that you can still squat, press and deadlift indicates to me that it is not that bad - when I hurt my neck, I could not do any training at all for 2 weeks because the pain was bad enough I could not even work at my desk.

You cannot do the SS program on a cut - you can only do your best to maintain your lifts when cutting. And again, at 5'5" and 165 lbs, you are very underweight to be able to complete the program. You need to reread Practical Programming (and probably also the blue book) and finish your novice linear progression. You are not in need of intermediate programming. You need to gain weight. The sets and reps you should be aiming for are 3 sets of 5 on the squat, press and bench (if you can bench), and 1 set of 5 on deadlifts.

[Flavius]

You're at way too low of a bodyweight. You don't need to be cutting calories when you're 5'5" and 165 lbs - you need to be gaining bodyweight. You would need to cut only if your bodyfat gets too high and that would be after the end of your linear progression, which you have not completed.



^ These are not the numbers of an intermediate lifter, they are novice numbers, even before you lost a bunch of weight. These are also not the rep ranges you use during the novice program, which are sets of 5. You are also doing shit that isn't in the novice linear progression, like triceps extensions and lateral raises - shit that you can do later after completing the NLP, and got yourself hurt.

Are you properly retracting your shoulders during the bench press? You shouldn't be putting a bunch of weight on your head. The touch point is not on the neck, it's on the retracted shoulder blades/upper back area.

Are you retracting your shoulder blades on the dips? That could be the cause of your shoulder pain. You need to retract and depress them just like when you bench press. If you still can't do dips and can't bench, I'd just press every workout.

How long as your neck been injured? If it is a muscle issue (spasm), it can take several weeks to heal. I went through that after a wonky jerk about a month and a half ago. You have to not mess with it while it heals. If the neck doesn't heal on its own within 4 weeks, I'd get it looked at by a doctor. The fact that you can still squat, press and deadlift indicates to me that it is not that bad - when I hurt my neck, I could not do any training at all for 2 weeks because the pain was bad enough I could not even work at my desk.

You cannot do the SS program on a cut - you can only do your best to maintain your lifts when cutting. And again, at 5'5" and 165 lbs, you are very underweight to be able to complete the program. You need to reread Practical Programming (and probably also the blue book) and finish your novice linear progression. You are not in need of intermediate programming. You need to gain weight. The sets and reps you should be aiming for are 3 sets of 5 on the squat, press and bench (if you can bench), and 1 set of 5 on deadlifts.

I don't think I am low in bodyweight for my height,my intention is not doing SS to improve performance in some sport or anything like that, I am just doing it for longevity and health, I don't belive a high bodyweight at my height is going to be good for either one of those; If I can get to 165 with a bodyfat percentage of 12-15% I will be satisfied with that, and I indend to eat just 2 meals a day, I find it much more convenient, and that's the way most people, throughout most of our existence have eaten, and I believe for my my objectives(longevity and health) 2 meals a day is optimal

I have been at to much of a bodyfat percentage for to long(2 years +), I did not gain a lot of muscle mass, but I did put on a lot of fat, because I did dirty bulking, and didn't do the program correctly because I could not recover even on a shit ton of callories; so I ended up with not that much muscle mass, and a lot of fat, and apart from the fact that aesthetically I look like crap, my health has suffered from the fat gain also; I have bad bloodwork, from cholesterol to glucose to liver markers, lower T levels than when I was before bulking(half of it actually), my priority now has to be health, and that's why I need to lose bodyfat

I am retracting my shoulder blades during the bench, I actually hurt my neck during triceps extensions, when I did put a bunch of weight on my neck, because of the bar moving over my head, and my hips rising of the bench, but I feel it every time I bench after that episode

I don't indent to do SS NLP, and I do think I am an intermediate, at 180 lbs I did

squat 355 3 sets of 1
press 152 five sets of 1
deadlift 370 one set of 3

they may be novice numbers, but I don't think they are at this bodyweight

I also don't intend to do a dirty bulking ever again in my life, for the next bulk maybe add 300-500 kcal above maintenance, no more; so SS NLP is out of the question for me

there must be some sort of programming in the SS methodology for periods of caloric deficit, and also for a more gradual increase in kcals, not the usually recommended 1000-1500 kcal above maintenance, isn't there?

[Mark Rippetoe]

there must be some sort of programming in the SS methodology for periods of caloric deficit, and also for a more gradual increase in kcals, not the usually recommended 1000-1500 kcal above maintenance, isn't there?

No, there's not. Isn't that interesting?

[Huy Huynh]

In my honest opinion you can still make novice gains. You should really give SS an honest try. In a week, if you can add 5 pounds every workout then you find out you're a novice or not. It will be a pleasant surprise to find out you're a novice anyways and 1 week is not a lot of time in the context of intermediate programming. Personally, the NLP hasn't stopped for me yet so I don't know if doing intermediate program will help a lot. It might just be too little stress to adapt to.

[CommanderFun]

there must be some sort of programming in the SS methodology for periods of caloric deficit, and also for a more gradual increase in kcals, not the usually recommended 1000-1500 kcal above maintenance, isn't there?

Starting strength is not designed for caloric deficits. It calls for such a big caloric surplus because it is a VERY aggressive remodeling of your body. Based on your numbers, it sounds like you probably have the "skinny fat" problem. The oft-repeated wisdom around here is to take care of the skinny part first, it makes getting rid of the fat a hell of a lot easier. If you try to just deal with the fat problem first, the skinny problem gets a lot worse and the fat problem gets harder and harder to solve as that goes on. You might also just be dealing with body image/expectation issues. It's very unlikely you're super high fat at 160 and 5'5".

Instead of constricting your diet, I'd say work on cleaning it up. "Dirty" bulking is usually code for getting a lot of the extra calories from sugary shit like soda. Any time in the past I've tried to use this to enhance a bulking diet, the weight gain was there, but it was WAY more skewed toward fat gain. Some of the blood markers you're talking about also showed up (like lower than expected T). Also, if you've been in a deficit already, that can cause LDL to rise until weight stabilizes again. This is also something I've experienced with aggressive weight cuts in past, and so is a decrease in testosterone (and libido) with prolonged cutting, as it turns out.

If you insist on cutting, as someone who's done it a few times, the fact is there's really no way to keep your lifts improving while you are aggressively losing weight. The only exception to this seems to be people who have a lot of fat to draw from, which I doubt is you. If you spend 3 months, and lose something like 30-40 pounds, you will be fortunate to come out of it at about 90% of your prior strength. That's 3 lost months of increasing your strength, and it amounts to even MORE lost time working up to reclaim old numbers.

Clean it up, get better carbs. You'll do a lot better that way. 20 pounds is a pretty hefty loss of weight for someone your size anyway.