Modifying press programming & stress of squat/DL on same day Modifying press programming & stress of squat/DL on same day

starting strength gym
Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Modifying press programming & stress of squat/DL on same day

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    7

    Default Modifying press programming & stress of squat/DL on same day

    • starting strength seminar august 2022
    • starting strength seminar october 2022
    • starting strength seminar december 2022
    I've been almost doing the program for the past 6 or so weeks after NTDP for a while (was still doing a more or less LP on the major lifts). Lifts and stats are:

    BW: 175 (from 118) @ 5'7
    DL: 350x5 / 360x4
    SQ: 250x5
    PR: 132.5x5
    BP: 157.5x5
    PC: 130x5

    I introduced the power clean pretty recently. Deadlifting every other workout and adding 10 lbs. and recently moved to deadlifting once a week, was going pretty smoothly until I failed the last rep after moving up to 360 lbs. The 5th rep at 350 lbs. was pretty slow so I should have predicted this. Squat has been going up 5 lbs. without too much trouble, except that I've been doing FSQ (205x5) on days I deadlift because my lower back feels very tired after the squats. It may be a mental issue but I feel a lot more confident about attempting a new deadlift PR after FSQ. The last reps on both bench and press have gotten pretty grindy, especially the bench. I haven't reset yet, but have stalled once or twice on each before managing to clear on the next workout. Have been incrementing by 2.5 lbs. on both for a while. I am surprised by how weak my bench is relative to press.

    Questions are:

    1. Do I just work through lower back fatigue and start squatting heavy on days I deadlift, even if it affects deadlift progress? Or do light squats on DL days (open to swapping FSQ for LBBS 2x5 @ 80 percent).
    2. Pretty clear that I have to dial it down to 5 lbs. increments on the deadlift once a week. Would it be a good time to include a deadlift variant one day of the week? Between rack pulls, haltings, RDLs, and just light deadlifts what would (along with PC one day a week) most aid continued progress on the DL itself?
    3. Considering deloading the bench, and possibly press, and working back up with much stricter form (e.g. no hip thrust on the press, and possibly a very minor pause on the bench). My thinking here is that in the heat of trying to complete a heavy set, I don't always remember to thrust my hips (3rd rep is almost always very strict) on the press, and end up bouncing a bit on the heaviest last reps on the bench -- and working back up from a weight I can handle in a controlled fashion where each rep looks the same may help.


    I'm also considering adding some light pressing volume on Saturdays. Since my squat and deadlift continue to increase, I don't think the issue is recovery. Are there any good candidate workouts for a Saturday that won't be overstressful? Was thinking of starting with something like a light strict press + light close grip bench for 3x5-8. I rest at least 5 minutes in between upper body sets. I think there are reps I would have made in the past if I had rested 7-8 minutes, but I'm not sure that's feasible since it would involve starting earlier and I already start at 6am.

    Finally, and I should ask in the nutrition forum, but I intend to go on at least a minor deficit to the extent I can accommodate it. I've gained almost 60 lbs. and a little too fat for my liking. (I probably should not have gained weight as quickly as I did.)

    I've read both a clarification & the first three questions. Main reason I am posting anyway is because I feel my deadlift is unusually high relative to my squat, and my bench is unusually low relative to my press.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    373

    Default

    In my experience, these simple programs are best left exactly the way they were designed. There are plenty of options in the grey book, pick one and stick to it. consistency is the hardest part, i am just as tempted as anyone to think about complicating, advancing, and modifying programming...and every time i do i end up worse for it.

    As far as comparing the relativity of your lifts, I dont think that is very useful since there is no universal guide that any one individual can use for any constructive purpose. The goal should be improving on all your lifts, not closing in on arbitrary percentages of one lift to another that you think are ideal.

    And last, I think any SS coach would agree that getting stronger on a deficit is probably going to present challenges, unless you are just talking about cutting back macros that are already too high above baseline. Stan Efferding explains this well in the last podcast with Ray Gillenwater.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Garage of GainzZz
    Posts
    2,829

    Default

    Post videos of your lifts; I smell form problems on all of them that explain these symptoms.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    7

    Default

    @Satch- I will try to take videos in the upcoming sessions.

    I'm not too concerned about the relativity of my lifts, but between the deadlift and the squat I felt it may be relevant to the extent the deadlift is getting heavy enough that progressing both at the same time is difficult. I read through some older threads and noticed Rip mentioned more complicated DL programming may be warranted one the weight is around 2x BW, which it is in my case. As for diet, I'm not trying to "cut" too much or anything but my bodyfat percent has probably increased 12-15 percent over the course of all this and, following some rough guidelines in "A Clarification", thought it would be possible to dial it back towards the 15-17 percent range without derailing further progress. Maybe that is not realistic?

    This session stopped front squatting and added a 2x5 @ 80 percent as per the Program. Included rack pulls for the first time, and pulled 405x5 without much difficulty. Kept the bar a little below the patella but re-reading SS seems like it should be an inch or so lower than that still. Reset bench to 140 lbs. and focusing on extremely deliberate control over each rep.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pangloss View Post
    I'm not too concerned about the relativity of my lifts, but between the deadlift and the squat I felt it may be relevant to the extent the deadlift is getting heavy enough that progressing both at the same time is difficult.
    There are benefits to doing both the heavy squat and deadlift on the same day: you have maximum recovery time between the next heavy session. This is discussed in PP.

    I have kept my programming extremely simple for many years. I still squat and deadlift for a single set on the same day and am stronger than 99% on this forum.

    You're not that strong yet and programming isn't the problem.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •