Rack Pulls and Haltings didnít carry over to regular deadlift - Page 2

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Thread: Rack Pulls and Haltings didnít carry over to regular deadlift

  1. #11
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    They were done heavy. Try pulling 640 out of the rack and let me know if that feels heavy to you. I started conservative but over the past couple months every single fifth rep on rack pulls and eighth rep on Haltings were grindy. And if youíll read my post they were getting so heavy I had to hitch the 5th rep to complete it 2 weeks ago.

    Rip,

    I noticed something when watching my failed conventional attempt and my rack pulls. At the same height above my knees it appears that my back angle is more horizontal during the conventional deadlift vs the rack pulls. In the rack pull i can set up more vertical to start but in the conventional my back angle is determined by how quickly my hips open. This obviously creates a longer moment arm between the hips and the bar during conventional which my back is not strong enough to handle leading to a huge sticking point in the movement. Iím thinking I may have messed up and not bent over enough while training the rack pulls.

    Hereís my failed attempt at 635 for reference:
    Shared album - Nate Mielke - Google Photos

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satch12879 View Post
    The intention is to do them heavy, because as a partial, you're trying to overload one portion of the movement pattern. If that one component portion you're trying to train is only stressed marginally more than when you're doing the entire movement, then what's the benefit? That was Andrew's point.

    During the 38 weeks, did you attempt any deadlifts at all, even just a single or was this entirely haltings and rack pulls?

    As usual, Andy may be onto something, as mileage may vary. There was some talk a while ago about post post novice deadlift training, i.e., using variants and partials, may have an anthropometric component or emphasis. Yes, some people might not respond to say rack pulls or they get extremely sore, but deficit deadlifts don't have the same effect. I believe this was Santana's experience several years ago.

    To your situation, however, I'm tending toward agreeing with Andrew. I can't see 640 rack pull on a 615 conventional deadlift helping appreciably.
    My point was that he spent 38 weeks doing what he could have done in 10 weeks and then worked through the problems.

    I don't care that he did this in 38 weeks - it's totally fine if he wants to be that conservative with a new method and that's how he is willing to spend their time. If you (mielkeman14) want to take that much time, that's fine, but the end of your original post, you tacitly complained that you only gained 20lb on your deadlift and it took 3/4 of a year. You could have complained 24 weeks earlier.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mielkeman14 View Post

    Here’s my failed attempt at 635 for reference:
    Shared album - Nate Mielke - Google Photos
    The problem here is that you pull with a rounded back and you can't finish the last part of the deadlift because your erectors are too weak to then extend your lumbar.
    Last edited by AndrewLewis; 05-17-2022 at 08:06 PM.
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  4. #14
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    10 weeks to gain 20lbs on my deadliftÖif I jump 5lbs every other week alternating that means I would have started rack pulls at 615 for 5. You canít seriously be suggesting this is what I should have started with for a completely new movement that is inherently risky if the form is off given the loadÖ

    I can also guarantee you I wouldnít have been able to do it given that when I got to that weight after having progressed incrementally for months I barely completed it.

    Sure you can criticize me for starting too light. Iíve read practical programming cover to cover and thereís no recommendations for where to start these progressions so I went on the conservative side.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReconquistaBarbell View Post
    Good question... According to people that say such and such exercises may or may not carryover to the main lifts, that could have no effect on his regular deadlift, if I understand their point correctly. I was just trying to help clarify the issue.

    My experience or that of people I train, with rack/block pulls has always been positive though, but all the people that I prescribed partials to struggled with them on the beginning, just as an observation.
    How about if he takes the rack pull from 425 to 625? Does it help then?

    Quote Originally Posted by mielkeman14 View Post
    Rip,

    I noticed something when watching my failed conventional attempt and my rack pulls. At the same height above my knees it appears that my back angle is more horizontal during the conventional deadlift vs the rack pulls. In the rack pull i can set up more vertical to start but in the conventional my back angle is determined by how quickly my hips open. This obviously creates a longer moment arm between the hips and the bar during conventional which my back is not strong enough to handle leading to a huge sticking point in the movement. Iím thinking I may have messed up and not bent over enough while training the rack pulls.

    Hereís my failed attempt at 635 for reference:
    Shared album - Nate Mielke - Google Photos
    Yes, low back was round off the floor. No way to lock that out.

  6. #16
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    Okay Iíll try to get tighter and maybe that will help. Not sure how much Iíll be able to improve in 1.5 weeks.

    Is my analysis of the rack pull vs conventional back angle valid? Seems to me I was more vertical at the same position above the knee during rack pulls.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    How about if he takes the rack pull from 425 to 625? Does it help then?
    I suspect something involving unicorns will happen.

    Do you realize I'm all for rack pulls, often use them for me and my clients and have had only good results doing so...?

    I do understand the logic behind the argument that an assistance exercise might not have significant carryover to a main lift for certain people (I'm not saying that I agree though...), but regarding the partial deadlifts and conventional deadlifts, in my limited experience, it has always worked.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mielkeman14 View Post
    10 weeks to gain 20lbs on my deadlift…if I jump 5lbs every other week alternating that means I would have started rack pulls at 615 for 5. You can’t seriously be suggesting this is what I should have started with for a completely new movement that is inherently risky if the form is off given the load…
    This is not a completely new movement pattern.
    If you have been setting your back hard in extension and maintaining tension off of the floor on your full deadlifts, 615 should not be a problem starting out for rack pulls.

    Quote Originally Posted by mielkeman14 View Post
    ...Is my analysis of the rack pull vs conventional back angle valid? Seems to me I was more vertical at the same position above the knee during rack pulls.
    Watch Rip's videos on how to perform the movement, then tell us.

  9. #19
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    Rip,

    Thanks for the advice as always. I got a better squeeze (could still prob be better) and lockout felt stronger.

    Hereís 600 x 1 done today: Shared album - Nate Mielke - Google Photos

    Meet is next Saturday. If 600 on meet day looks like this what would you call for the 2nd attempt?

    Yngvi,

    How would you know what I can vs canít do? Just because Rip said that normally what someone can rack pull for 5 they can do for a single doesnít mean that on day 1 of someone rack pulling they can/should start at their max for a set of 5. And even if I could, where do I go from there? Generally when you program you donít start week 1 at the most weight you can do on a lift, especially if youíre no longer a novice (which I am not).

    Also, Rip has said that was his personal experience. That doesnít mean thatís going to hold true for every person.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Low back still needs work. I'd open with 265, and call for 277 for 2nd attempt, waive the 3rd. I don't think you can pull three heavy singles with this low back.

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