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Thread: Help w/ designing 3-week Intermediate method

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
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    105

    Default Help w/ designing 3-week Intermediate method

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    Hey folks,

    I've been using a 2-week Intermediate training method for the past couple years, where I alternate Volume (5x5) and Intensity (5RM) sets for each of the 4 primary lifts. It takes 2 weeks because I can only fit in 2 training sessions per week, which I understand is not optimal, but that's my situation and I'm trying to make the best of it. My 2-week training cycle looks like this:

    Week A, Day 1: Squat (5RM) + Press (5x5)
    Week A, Day 2: Bench (5RM) + DL (2x5)

    Week B, Day 1: Squat (5x5) + Press (5RM)
    Week B, Day 2: Bench (5x5) + DL (5RM)

    The problem is, my progress is starting to stall. I've re-set all the lifts several times over the past year, and tried decreasing my weight jumps from 5 > 2.5 > 1.0 lbs, but the results have been mixed. It could be that I just need to be patient and give it some more time, but on the other hand, no one lives forever, and if there are programming changes that I can implement now to improve my situation, I'd like to do so. Of course, I'm depending on the collective experience of this forum to guide me in the right direction.

    My initial thought is to switch to a 3-week Intermediate method. Page 159 of PPST shows a 3-week Intermediate training program. I'm thinking of trying a modified version of this one, where I introduce either Dynamic Effort (10 sets of 2 or 3 reps done as quickly + explosively as possible) or high-volume (3 - 4 sets of 12 - 15 reps) versions of each of the lifts, in addition to my existing Volume (5x5) and Intensity (5RM) sets. I'm not sure whether DE or HV sets would be better for my situation. I can think of reasons that both would help me increase strength and/or pack on a bit more muscle, but I'm not sure which one is most optimal, especially given the fact that I can only train 2x per week.

    Finally, going to a 3-week Intermediate method would mean that I'm progressing on each version of the lift only once every 3 weeks, which is sloooooow. I'm fine with slow IF it works better than what I'm doing now. Slow and steady progress is miles better than spinning your wheels for years on end and getting frustrated. That being said, if you don't think that a 3-week program makes sense for my situation, based on your experience, then please shoot down the idea now, so I don't waste even more time.

    This is where you folks come in. I really appreciate your advice. Thanks everyone!

    -skypig

  2. #2

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    Hey there, what are your numbers for the lifts and also your height, weight and age?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    105

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    33 years old, 5' 11". My weight cycles between 185 - 195 lbs. I tried getting over 200 lbs, but I just couldn't do it. I feel sick/bloated when I eat past a certain point...

    Squat: 315 lbs
    Bench: 255 lbs
    Press: 150 lbs
    DL: 370 lbs

    What's your advice? Thanks Alex.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    668

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    My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you're stalling because you need more stimulus, given where your numbers are. Going to a 3 week cycle will just make that worse at this point. Are you limited in how long you can work out as well as how many days? If you can manage to squat twice a week that would help. Also understand that fives for intensity day won't last forever, you'll want to be doing 3x2, 2x3, or singles, probably in rotation (this is covered exhaustively in PPST). For upper body you have options. You can try to train both bench and press for volume and intensity in the same week; you can alternate bench and press focus every other week; or you could focus on one, using the other as an accessory. That's my preference but it's partly due to a bad shoulder that doesn't tolerate a lot of benching.

    Sample with press focus:
    Day 1: Squat 5x5, press intensity, bench 3x5
    Day 2: squat intensity, press 5x5, deadlift

    You may want to keep the deadlift on a 2 week schedule, so week 1 is a set of 5, 2x3 or 3x2, and week 2 is 3x5.

    If your lifts were 100lbs heavier I'd probably suggest something different, maybe a heavy set and then backoffs for volume, only training each lift once a week. But I think you're at a place where you can benefit greatly from more frequency.

    Of course the suggestion I made above is only going to work if you get over your unwillingness to eat.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Winter Springs, FL
    Posts
    159

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    Quote Originally Posted by skypig View Post
    33 years old, 5' 11". My weight cycles between 185 - 195 lbs. I tried getting over 200 lbs, but I just couldn't do it. I feel sick/bloated when I eat past a certain point...

    Squat: 315 lbs
    Bench: 255 lbs
    Press: 150 lbs
    DL: 370 lbs

    What's your advice? Thanks Alex.
    Your programming looks very close to the intensity/volume splits that powerlifters have been using forever. Your numbers are within range of the end of the NLP for a male in their thirties. Others can comment in more details.

    The *world record* deadlift is 5x bodyweight. But that's for smaller lifters. For guys in 200lb range it's closer to 4x. If you think you can add 5 lbs to a deadlift without adding at least 1lb to your body, we need to back the truck up pretty far. The correlation coefficient between strength and muscle for non-novices is 0.93. That means that 93% of strength increase can be explained by more muscle. Your body can't make muscle out of thin air. And, even if it could, that muscle would weigh something once it was part of your body.

    There are lots of creative ideas on this forum about how to get more calories in. Even if you do your jumps at 1lb/week, that's 4lb month on the barbell which means at least 1lb/month on your body. If you don't eat enough calories to support that, the gains won't come. For reference, I'm 5'8" 190lb and 46 years old. My numbers are about the same as yours. I run a similar intensity/volume split. I've tried to get stronger without gaining weight. But then I get tired of wasting time.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
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    Thanks Matt and Ed for the advice. Darn. I had a nagging suspicion that I just wasn't eating enough. I know you can't make muscle out of thin air, but I also know I don't like feeling bloated and sick all the time. It was easy gaining weight back when I weighed 160 lbs. But once I got into the 180 - 190 lb range, gaining weight just got super hard. But maybe there's a way for me to sneak some more calories in without going too crazy. I'm not the type that can pig out at the buffet every day, but maybe I can increase the amount of milk I have with my morning cereal, increase the amount of milk and yogurt that I have before bed, have an extra glass of milk after dinner, etc.

    Sounds like my programming isn't too far off...I just need to eat more, and I gotta figure out how. Thanks again for the help!

  7. #7

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    Gaining weight and getting stronger go hand in hand. You really need to find a way to get your calorie intake up ASAP. There are lots of creative ways to do this, I recently listed to Stan Efferding explain how he gets strongmen clients to eat 10,000 calories a day Starting Strength Radio: Nutrition, Body Composition, Sleep, and Overall Health | Starting Strength Gyms Podcast #12 on Apple Podcasts

    I know this probably isn’t the answer you wanted but there is no magic formula to getting stronger without getting bigger, and to do that you need to eat enough to support your training, especially as an intermediate.

  8. #8
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    Nov 2020
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    105

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    Thanks Alex - yep, I know I need to eat more. I'll give it my best shot. What's a reasonable body weight to aim for, if my height is 5' 11"? 205 lbs?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by skypig View Post
    Thanks Alex - yep, I know I need to eat more. I'll give it my best shot. What's a reasonable body weight to aim for, if my height is 5' 11"? 205 lbs?
    I would be thinking more 225 at least, I am 6 2 and weigh 245 and working towards getting to 250. Honestly it’s amazing how much it impacts your lifts, particularly pressing and you may put on a little bit of body fat but worth it for all the muscle you will also gain.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    105

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    starting strength coach development program
    Cowabunga...the thought of gaining 35 more pounds is crazy to me. I guess I gotta take things one day at a time and see how I do...

    Thanks again for all the advice.

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