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Thread: Is it possible to just be extremely intolerant of squat volume?

  1. #11
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    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
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    Don't have any recent ones available (last one I have is from january this year), but I can get a video of a set of 5 with the last weight I did for volume tomorrow, will that do?

  2. #12
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    Alright, here you go. Last of 3 sets of 5.


  3. #13
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    Nothing wrong with the squats. Read Matt's post again.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    Ok, I found your training log. It looks like you've been doing 3x5 at about a 75% offset versus your intensity day?

    This may seem counterintuitive to you but I suspect your volume work is not providing adequate stress to drive adaptation, and continuing to push the intensity up is getting you beat up. (This is not original with me, it's almost a direct quote from Nick D'Agostino to me when I was having similar problems, except in my case it was due to lack of frequency due to illness and shitty schedule).

    I can see 3x5 volume working but probably at about 100lbs more on the bar.
    It migrated to 75% as I got to singles. I actually started the program in the log with the 10% offset from the intensity set of 5 with 4x5, pretty much like the program started normally, but with a set removed because I already knew squat volume gives me problems. The issues I've been having have been there long before that (heavy weekly volume on LP type programming has given me similar issues of even worse intensity). The volume day resets originally called for new volume offsets every time the intensity reps went down: 5 reps=90% on the volume, 3 reps=85%, 2 reps=82.5%, 1 rep=80%. This scheme worked well on the other lifts it applied to (the two pressing movements). Problem was the issue with how much my squats kept beating me up. So the first thing I tried was a larger offset, so I increased it by another 5%. That's why it got down to 75% ultimately.

    That didn't seem to work too well, so I tried going down to the 3x5. It seemed like things were slowly getting better after that, and have, little by little. You are probably right that I could bring that percentage up higher again in the future (not by 100 pounds though...there is no way in hell I could 3x5 with 385 pounds right now). But the issue isn't that the intensity weights weren't going up. In fact, I switched to the 3x5 for volume around the time my intensity work went to singles, and I felt I had more progress with the singles than any of the other intensity rep schemes. It was all the constant acheyness that's been the problem, which really only goes away when I take a bunch of ibuprofen in anticipation of a squat workout, and seems to get worsened by higher training volumes. Hence the original question.

  5. #15
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    I just want to clarify, I was saying that I don't think 3x5 at 75% is adequately stessful at your current loads. Down the road, when you're squatting 495 for singles, 3x5 at 375 would probably be adequate. Once the absolute load gets heavy enough, the balance shifts to favor intensity over volume in driving progress.

    Anyway, I think you're asking the wrong question. It's not "am I intolerant of squat volume," it's "why am I still feeling beat up after drastically reducing my volume?"

    The follow-up questions are: "how much volume do I need to drive adaptation at my current level of training advancement" and "how do I accumulate that volume in a way that is manageable?"

    4 day TM doesn't give you a lot of flexibility in that regard but there are a few things that can work. It would be well worth your time and money to do a phone consult with a SSC to get some ideas.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    I just want to clarify, I was saying that I don't think 3x5 at 75% is adequately stessful at your current loads. Down the road, when you're squatting 495 for singles, 3x5 at 375 would probably be adequate. Once the absolute load gets heavy enough, the balance shifts to favor intensity over volume in driving progress.

    Anyway, I think you're asking the wrong question. It's not "am I intolerant of squat volume," it's "why am I still feeling beat up after drastically reducing my volume?"

    The follow-up questions are: "how much volume do I need to drive adaptation at my current level of training advancement" and "how do I accumulate that volume in a way that is manageable?"

    4 day TM doesn't give you a lot of flexibility in that regard but there are a few things that can work. It would be well worth your time and money to do a phone consult with a SSC to get some ideas.
    Almost 2 weeks since ive done an intensity workout and you may be right with your initial assessment. Its less of a problem now, though it still popped up after i squatted in that video on friday. At least im not having to grab a handhold to get up and down from chairs or traverse stairs anymore. I had been planning to try working on just upping volume loads next without a separate intensity workout, so we'll see what that yields. Thanks for the input guys.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Nothing wrong with the squats. Read Matt's post again.
    I watched the video before seeing this remark and I'm just curious about something. When he sets for his first rep, his wrists look neutral. However, when he starts descending they go into flexion and at the bottom you can see the barbell roll forward (the plates are spinning at the top of the ascent on each rep). I'm not so dense as to think the TUBOW works and fits everyone, but if you look at the 19 second mark there seems to be a fair bit of knee slide. I'm prone to knee slide and then my knees feeling beat up, and I see a lot of the same things in some of my videos when I'm critiquing myself, so I'm curious if I've been giving myself bad advice.

  8. #18
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    He has long femurs, which explains the knees. Were I coaching him I would cue his wrists.

  9. #19
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    Subpar Lifter Disclaimer:

    I have definitely shared your struggles with this. I've taken a shot at running out the Texas Method a few times, and the volume squats are also always what kills me. I too would talk myself down to lowering the volume day offset in an effort to keep progress going, and to be able to keep my workouts under 90 mins. I have basically come to the conclusion that its not a great fit for me or my situation. Its like what Matt says, you need the appropriate volume dosage to keep the intensity day going up. That requires you to work in that 90% range, and that takes a long ass/difficult to recover from workout.

    You don't look old but you look like a grown up, (I'm 30 for perspective). Given that, I don't have time to complete a 90% volume day, or the schedule that really allows me to recover from that. I've recently resigned myself to the fact that I need to keep my squats on a HLM schedule. It breaks up the work over more days, and it feels more realistic in terms of recovery and time management. You could also interpret this as me not prioritizing my lifting over other parts of my life, and that is a fair assessment too. Depending on what your goals are, it might not be worth spinning your wheels trying to make the Texas Method work, even if it sounds so damn cool

    TLDR: I basically have my presses on a Texas Method schedule, and HLM for my squats because it works better for my situation

  10. #20
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    I'm not running a 3 day program at all. I don't think I even want to go back to 3 day programming ever again unless it's to do a 4 day split on a 3 day schedule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    He has long femurs, which explains the knees. Were I coaching him I would cue his wrists.
    Long femurs is an understatement. The wrists ive always struggled with, but its better than it used to be. I found it got not so severe when i widened my grip. No elbow pain or anything. It feels involuntary since the bar feels like it wants to roll up out of the low bar position on every descent.

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