Resting between particularly tough reps

[j410s]

I have found that as the weight goes up significantly (in particular, it seemed to be around 1.5x bodyweight this began to happen) it becomes harder to maintain composure through the entire set. For example, if I am lifting 5x3 and squatting to depth (ATG or near there) it seems that around rep 4 I begin to grey out in some cases. I am doing the valsalva correctly. I have a new weight belt on order. But this brings up a question I don't recall seeing answered in the book.

Suppose that I do end up getting a little woozy at rep 3-4 in a set. Is it acceptable to rack the weight for 5-10s to regain composure before finishing the set? It seems pathetic, however I don't want to push myself to the point of passing out in my garage, alone, where the situation could become dangerous. I have been resting about 5-10 seconds after fighting a particularly hard rep. I have plenty of strength left most of the time.

Maybe this is abnormal. I have ran it by my doctor. I don't have orthostatic hypotension or anything that may cause this. I am really just concerned about cheating the set to the point I am not getting the maximum amount of muscle damage I need. I would imagine resting for a significant period of time, say 30-60 seconds, it would be more like stop-go lifting. But maybe 5-10s is acceptable?

[Jason Donaldson]

By definition, racking the weight ends the set. (Same with letting go of the bar in the deadlift and standing up...) The amount of time may be short, but it's not a full set then. Standing there with the bar on your shoulders is different, e.g. to take some breaths.

Of course, passing out with a bar on your back is Not A Good Thing, so figuring this out is certainly important. Are you breathing in between each rep at the top of the squat?

I'm curious - how do you know that you're doing the Valsalva correctly? Can you keep your mouth open for the whole rep? Also, are you breathing in between each rep at the top of the squat?

One other point, probably unrelated, but of note - ATG squats are not the way taught in the book or the method.

[j410s]

By definition, racking the weight ends the set. (Same with letting go of the bar in the deadlift and standing up...) The amount of time may be short, but it's not a full set then. Standing there with the bar on your shoulders is different, e.g. to take some breaths.

Of course, passing out with a bar on your back is Not A Good Thing, so figuring this out is certainly important. Are you breathing in between each rep at the top of the squat?

I'm curious - how do you know that you're doing the Valsalva correctly? Can you keep your mouth open for the whole rep? Also, are you breathing in between each rep at the top of the squat?

One other point, probably unrelated, but of note - ATG squats are not the way taught in the book or the method.

I will review the book for form. I figured the deeper the better.

As for the valsalva I guess I don't. I am signed up for a clinic at some point in the future but its a way's off. I take in a deep breath and "lock" it (weird way to put it but whatever) in my throat. When I do it I can feel pressure in my head like you would when you try to pop your ears. As for breathing...that may be the cause. I have my sets today so I will review this but I believe I am holding my breath for several reps, or not taking a complete breath at the top. I won't re-rack the weight today ;D it is probably not necessary.

[Alex Ptacek]

You're probably holding your air incorrectly. Are you breathing between reps? Or trying to do it all on one breath? Like Jason said, do a set with your mouth open.

[Eric Schexnayder]

Racking the weight between reps makes you a pussy. That’s all there is to it.

[j410s]

By definition, racking the weight ends the set. (Same with letting go of the bar in the deadlift and standing up...) The amount of time may be short, but it's not a full set then. Standing there with the bar on your shoulders is different, e.g. to take some breaths.

Of course, passing out with a bar on your back is Not A Good Thing, so figuring this out is certainly important. Are you breathing in between each rep at the top of the squat?

I'm curious - how do you know that you're doing the Valsalva correctly? Can you keep your mouth open for the whole rep? Also, are you breathing in between each rep at the top of the squat?

One other point, probably unrelated, but of note - ATG squats are not the way taught in the book or the method.

My other post hasn't been approved yet but I wanted to chime in with good news. I believe I was doing the valsalva correctly (or at least correctly enough according to rip's youtube videos). I reviewed the book for form and practiced a bunch of sets without weight to make sure I got a feel for the SS depth requirement. By getting the depth right, timing my breathing at the top of the rep, etc I was able to finish 5x3 with no rest between any consecutive reps.

Thank you for the assistance. I really appreciate it.

[Jason Donaldson]

My other post hasn't been approved yet but I wanted to chime in with good news. I believe I was doing the valsalva correctly (or at least correctly enough according to rip's youtube videos). I reviewed the book for form and practiced a bunch of sets without weight to make sure I got a feel for the SS depth requirement. By getting the depth right, timing my breathing at the top of the rep, etc I was able to finish 5x3 with no rest between any consecutive reps.

Thank you for the assistance. I really appreciate it.

Great news - glad to help. A few more unsolicited pointers that may help, as well:

Being able to keep the mouth open is a great diagnostic to ensure you're not holding "too high", since the definition of the maneuver is to hold air in the lungs against a closed glottis, which is in the throat. In my experience, it's still possible to have some extraneous tension up in the head contribute to dizziness, thought not as badly. I've found trying to keep a neutral face helps with that, if that makes sense. (This also helps me with focusing on technical elegance, to steal from a recent article by Andrew Lewis.) Perhaps this is contributing to your experience of pressure like trying to pop your ears. Are you perhaps thrusting your jaw forward?

A small point that will help with clarity: The rule of thumb around here is that "reps go second". Three sets of five reps becomes 3 x 5. 225 pounds for three sets of five reps becomes 225 x 5 x 3. By definition, it's an arbitrary rule, but held consistently, it helps with communication.

Finally, it will definitely help to digest the book, not just consult it. It only becomes an effective reference manual after you've done that. It will likely take multiple readings, but it will definitely repay your attention.
The SS recommendation for depth doesn't just come as a prescriptive "what", but there's a well-reasoned "why" behind it, explained in the book, as well as in many videos and articles. To know why deeper isn't better will help you immensely. (Hint: Start with the three criteria for exercise selection, viz. moving the most weight using the most muscle mass through the greatest effective range of motion. How do each of those terms map to the SS squat form?)

[Nicholas Laureys]

I am really just concerned about cheating the set to the point I am not getting the maximum amount of muscle damage I need.

One more point to consider is that muscle damage is not the aim being pursued. While some may find the clarification purely academic, if you're proprioceptically chasing feelings of soreness to know you 'got a good workout in,' YNDTP and your results will suffer accordingly.

[Mark Rippetoe]

One more point to consider is that muscle damage is not the aim being pursued. While some may find the clarification purely academic, if you're proprioceptically chasing feelings of soreness to know you 'got a good workout in,' YNDTP and your results will suffer accordingly.

Soreness, Training, and Practice | Mark Rippetoe

[j410s]

Great news - glad to help. A few more unsolicited pointers that may help, as well:

Being able to keep the mouth open is a great diagnostic to ensure you're not holding "too high", since the definition of the maneuver is to hold air in the lungs against a closed glottis, which is in the throat. In my experience, it's still possible to have some extraneous tension up in the head contribute to dizziness, thought not as badly. I've found trying to keep a neutral face helps with that, if that makes sense. (This also helps me with focusing on technical elegance, to steal from a recent article by Andrew Lewis.) Perhaps this is contributing to your experience of pressure like trying to pop your ears. Are you perhaps thrusting your jaw forward?

A small point that will help with clarity: The rule of thumb around here is that "reps go second". Three sets of five reps becomes 3 x 5. 225 pounds for three sets of five reps becomes 225 x 5 x 3. By definition, it's an arbitrary rule, but held consistently, it helps with communication.

Finally, it will definitely help to digest the book, not just consult it. It only becomes an effective reference manual after you've done that. It will likely take multiple readings, but it will definitely repay your attention.
The SS recommendation for depth doesn't just come as a prescriptive "what", but there's a well-reasoned "why" behind it, explained in the book, as well as in many videos and articles. To know why deeper isn't better will help you immensely. (Hint: Start with the three criteria for exercise selection, viz. moving the most weight using the most muscle mass through the greatest effective range of motion. How do each of those terms map to the SS squat form?)

Thanks for the clarification. Indeed, it would appear I was "holding too high". First it was sticking my gut out without doing the right technique, then it was the right idea but held too high. I think I've got it down now. The feeling is entirely different. Thank you.

One more point to consider is that muscle damage is not the aim being pursued. While some may find the clarification purely academic, if you're proprioceptically chasing feelings of soreness to know you 'got a good workout in,' YNDTP and your results will suffer accordingly.

I think a further clarification here is consistent DOMS is not good. Some soreness is to be expected though when adding weight. I find I am a little sore after doing particularly challenging weight. However, nothing like doing a "crossfit" style workout where the soreness is not healthy. The big change for me when I started this program was realizing that 99% of workout "science" is bullshit. Muscle & Fitness magazine posts workouts that work when you're a geared up bodybuilder and have the recovery 3x that of a normal man. Etc. I used to do these workouts. While the length of the workout is longer now (due to extended rest between sets) I generally feel better and am more easily putting weight on the bar.