Is this typical?

[quanta]

I did my program LP at 24 as a vegan and ended with a 395x5 squat, 455x5 DL. Recovery was very difficult by the end; I was probably eating 250g protein on 5000 calories with inadequate sleep. Not veg*n anymore though.

You didn't mention creatine. It is a massive mistake to not take creatine as a vegan. Take 10g at least: it's cheap, it works, you're getting none from your diet. No mention of B vitamins, you need those too, especially methylcobalamin B12. More omega 3s in any form will help, but especially EPA/DHA.

You're diet looks inadequate in sodium. Drown that tofu in soy sauce. Mix salt into your preworkout meal or mainline 1-2 tsps like a champ.

Your ratios on the lifts are weird. I suspect technique errors too.

[j410s]

I did my program LP at 24 as a vegan and ended with a 395x5 squat, 455x5 DL. Recovery was very difficult by the end; I was probably eating 250g protein on 5000 calories with inadequate sleep. Not veg*n anymore though.

You didn't mention creatine. It is a massive mistake to not take creatine as a vegan. Take 10g at least: it's cheap, it works, you're getting none from your diet. No mention of B vitamins, you need those too, especially methylcobalamin B12. More omega 3s in any form will help, but especially EPA/DHA.

You're diet looks inadequate in sodium. Drown that tofu in soy sauce. Mix salt into your preworkout meal or mainline 1-2 tsps like a champ.

Your ratios on the lifts are weird. I suspect technique errors too.

You'd think you'd just tell him to get protein from actual sources and not plants if he wants to improve his recovery. I find it hard to believe you achieved such lifts on a strictly plant diet. He's starving himself of nutrients only obtainable through animal protein. It fits into the realm of YNDTP and OP should re-read the book.

[quanta]

You'd think you'd just tell him to get protein from actual sources and not plants if he wants to improve his recovery.

Everyone else already said that and he's not going to listen, so why waste effort?

I find it hard to believe you achieved such lifts on a strictly plant diet.

I have no motive to bs now, because I no longer endorse eating that way. My pressing lifts never were anything to write home about until I added milk and eggs, and they continued to improve after adding flesh; as did my physique.

[Cole Gorton]

i always feel rusty and lethargic on monday after the weekends. ive mitigated a bit by going on a 30 minute walk before my monday session and extra warmups. I am 40 years old as well and i think at some point we de train easier than our younger selves. This is why I like the TM, because by Friday I am ready to hit intensity day PR's

[mikemoos]

Assuming that you didn’t reset the deadlift, this would mean that you were squatting more than you were deadlifting. You have a good deadlift to squat ratio now, but you can probably push the deadlift mich higher quickly. This is assuming you were doing a proper squat at 350. Also, your bench is really close to your squat. Did you bench before?

I did stall and reset on my deadlift more than my squat. Got back on track with DL after increasing my calorie intake. Yes I was on a chest dominant program earlier this year prior to getting on the starting strength program.

Your current protein intake is of shit quality. Not all protein is the same. Obviously a religious decision. Carry on.

Not a religious decision. I am not a vegan/vegetarian. I typically eat plant based but I still eat beef a couple times a month and dairy a couple times a week. A couple years ago, I used to eat meat at every meal and 6 eggs every breakfast. Since then, I made a decision to follow the diet I am on now. I constantly hear all the negative comments about my diet. But all that does is just makes me want to prove to myself that I can do it.

I did my program LP at 24 as a vegan and ended with a 395x5 squat, 455x5 DL. Recovery was very difficult by the end; I was probably eating 250g protein on 5000 calories with inadequate sleep. Not veg*n anymore though.

You didn't mention creatine. It is a massive mistake to not take creatine as a vegan. Take 10g at least: it's cheap, it works, you're getting none from your diet. No mention of B vitamins, you need those too, especially methylcobalamin B12. More omega 3s in any form will help, but especially EPA/DHA.

You're diet looks inadequate in sodium. Drown that tofu in soy sauce. Mix salt into your preworkout meal or mainline 1-2 tsps like a champ.

Your ratios on the lifts are weird. I suspect technique errors too.

Sorry, I didn’t mention it. I do take 10g of creatine. Also get b vitamins from supplements and nutritional yeast. I am lacking on the epa/dha and most days am low on sodium. Was told by my physician to keep sodium low due to blood pressure. But I agree that I could use more sodium in my diet. I’ll try that mainline idea!
I do have some technique errors. I have reached out to a SS coach to start online coaching.

i always feel rusty and lethargic on monday after the weekends. ive mitigated a bit by going on a 30 minute walk before my monday session and extra warmups. I am 40 years old as well and i think at some point we de train easier than our younger selves. This is why I like the TM, because by Friday I am ready to hit intensity day PR's

Exactly how I feel. I have been thinking about switching to the TM. I also just reached out to a SS coach to start online training.
I’ve been paying better attention to my sleep and I have found that my jaw drops down and partially closes my airway while I sleep, which wakes me up several times at night. Last night I propped myself up a bit and I slept better. I also had a better workout today. I look forward to working with a coach. Thank you for everyone’s input. It is very much appreciated.

Something I just remembered.
For those who are saying that it’s because of not eating animal products.
I had this exact problem 10 years ago (30yrs old). My first workout of the week was hard and it gave me doms. The reason I bring this up is that I ate meat every meal (chicken and beef) and 6 eggs for every breakfast. 4500 - 5000 calories and 350g of protein. I slept great. Rested 5 minutes or more between sets. Started my program from just an empty bar and slowly worked my way up.


The only differences between then and now are
1) my age
2) my diet
3) 6pm workout 10 years ago. 6:30amworkout now.

Explain that smart a$$es

[Mark Rippetoe]

Was told by my physician to keep sodium low due to blood pressure.

Do you believe everything he tells you?

The only differences between then and now are
1) my age
2) my diet
3) 6pm workout 10 years ago. 6:30amworkout now.

Explain that smart a$$es

Your diet. How is this obvious to everyone but you?

[Jason Donaldson]

Not a religious decision. I am not a vegan/vegetarian. I typically eat plant based but I still eat beef a couple times a month and dairy a couple times a week. A couple years ago, I used to eat meat at every meal and 6 eggs every breakfast. Since then, I made a decision to follow the diet I am on now. I constantly hear all the negative comments about my diet. But all that does is just makes me want to prove to myself that I can do it.

So, what would look different between the state of affairs where you're right and where you're wrong? Biochemistry is not a matter of resolve. A long time ago, I wanted to prove to myself that I could get brutally strong on 20-rep squats via mental toughness, but that did not work, despite my stubbornness.

Something I just remembered.
For those who are saying that it’s because of not eating animal products.
I had this exact problem 10 years ago (30yrs old). My first workout of the week was hard and it gave me doms. The reason I bring this up is that I ate meat every meal (chicken and beef) and 6 eggs for every breakfast. 4500 - 5000 calories and 350g of protein. I slept great. Rested 5 minutes or more between sets. Started my program from just an empty bar and slowly worked my way up.


The only differences between then and now are
1) my age
2) my diet
3) 6pm workout 10 years ago. 6:30amworkout now.

Explain that smart a$$es

I'm a little confused here - you were up to 355 on your squat before, but had to reset. Now you're at 290 or so, and even looking to change programming to TM. It seems you got further before on the LP. Am I tracking correctly?

You mention what sure sounds like sleep apnea - as many here have experienced, that can definitely mess with your recovery. For that matter, the 7 hours a night you're getting may not be enough for you, as well.

It's good you're getting coaching - it's amazing how much bang for the buck that can get you, as long as you lean into it, submit to the actual expert you've hired with some humility, and see what happens.

[mikemoos]

Do you believe everything he tells you?
Good point but that could be said about anyones advice as well. You know what I mean? Pick and choose?


Your diet. How is this obvious to everyone but you?

Ok. Everyone is saying to switch out plant based protein for animal protein to fix my issue.
But how do you explain that I had the same exact problem back when I ate either beef, chicken, pork, eggs at every meal. Are you saying that my animal protein diet was wrong too? How so?

What is obvious to me is that I had the same exact issue, regardless of whether I ate meat or plants.

[mikemoos]

So, what would look different between the state of affairs where you're right and where you're wrong? Biochemistry is not a matter of resolve. A long time ago, I wanted to prove to myself that I could get brutally strong on 20-rep squats via mental toughness, but that did not work, despite my stubbornness.

Sounds like your stubbornness wasn’t stubborn enough. Just kidding. I see your point, Sir.


I'm a little confused here - you were up to 355 on your squat before, but had to reset. Now you're at 290 or so, and even looking to change programming to TM. It seems you got further before on the LP. Am I tracking correctly?

Correct, had to reset twice. Switching to TM had only crossed my mind to help with my issue but will prove to be a premature endeavor. I will continue with my current programming unless instructed otherwise by a coach.

You mention what sure sounds like sleep apnea - as many here have experienced, that can definitely mess with your recovery. For that matter, the 7 hours a night you're getting may not be enough for you, as well.

I totally agree. I’ve been giving it more attention lately and have been getting better quality sleep the past couple nights. As for getting more sleep……eh, a work in progress.


It's good you're getting coaching - it's amazing how much bang for the buck that can get you, as long as you lean into it, submit to the actual expert you've hired with some humility, and see what happens.

Definitely agree with you. I’ve been coached several times before (boxing,karate,bjj) and follow their direction with humility and an understanding that they are an expert in their field. They have also taken the time to know me. My mind is a sponge soaking up all they have to teach.
I just don’t respond well to “grumpy old man attitude”. Respect is given as long as it’s also being received.

[Alex Ptacek]

Ok. Everyone is saying to switch out plant based protein for animal protein to fix my issue.
But how do you explain that I had the same exact problem back when I ate either beef, chicken, pork, eggs at every meal. Are you saying that my animal protein diet was wrong too? How so?

What is obvious to me is that I had the same exact issue, regardless of whether I ate meat or plants.

Have you had your technique looked at? If you're getting constant soreness in your posterior chain you're probably messing something up.