Over training

[Satch12879]

Its possible, I mean I'm more likely to be average then not average. There again following the programs in grey book could show that I'm also just indermidate. Only a trial effort will tell. I just struggle doing the big 3 all in one day with my the weight I can usually use if I just focus on 1 of the big 3 each training session. Example hard to preform the bench 5x5 with true maxium after I have done 5x5 with squat with full intensity.

If you can’t complete workouts because you’re not recovering then you either have to address that outside, or more likely, inside the gym. I’m in complete agreement with Rip that the biggest error in PPST is the inclusion of example intermediate and advanced programs, because people follow “the templates,” but fail to understand any of the principles behind them. Hell, people fail to understand the principles behind the novice program.

There’s no reason to be wedded to 5x5 of three major exercises at an arbitrary percentage of some other arbitrary weight once a week. None. Particularly if your quoted work set weights are accurate to begin with. Your stress accumulation/strength adaptation may need 10 days, 2-3 weeks, or longer. You may need smaller sets of reps, different set numbers, different rep numbers, different combinations of both, or even different exercises all together.

I think you’ve made great progress thus far, but I don’t think you’ve learned anything. You seem to want to shove a round peg into an increasingly not-round hole. I think it would behoove you to engage a coach if anything to help you work through the process of figuring out what you’re going to need as a long-term trainee.

[Griffin727]

It used to be worse with my overtraining when I was 17, trust me lol. As far for learning, the biggest thing I have picked up is understanding that the body responds to stress not to exersice variety. My biggest weakness is understand proper stress management. Such as bigger weights will cause more stress overall even though you have gotten stronger. I always though I could keep the same novice volume while increasing weight. Deadlifting 3 times a week was a huge issue of mine at 17 I couldnt understand why I couldnt do 365 for 5x5 3 times a week. You just have to keep a open mind a embrace the journey.

[neilc1]

, , , Deadlifting 3 times a week was a huge issue of mine at 17 I couldnt understand why I couldnt do 365 for 5x5 3 times a week. , , , .

Have you read, are you reading, any of the books ?

[Griffin727]

I have the blue working on the grey. Ik now why I can pull 3 times a week. It pretty much impossible to recover from due to the amount of muscle fibers used in a deadlift. If you program the deadlift more then 1x a week you better make from for recovery. Doing this can stop progess on the upperbody lifts since you will have to cut some volume and intensity in other areas. This was many years ago when I was doing 365 for 5s. Now I do between 485 and 525 for 5s.

[j410s]

If you can’t complete workouts because you’re not recovering then you either have to address that outside, or more likely, inside the gym. I’m in complete agreement with Rip that the biggest error in PPST is the inclusion of example intermediate and advanced programs, because people follow “the templates,” but fail to understand any of the principles behind them. Hell, people fail to understand the principles behind the novice program.

There’s no reason to be wedded to 5x5 of three major exercises at an arbitrary percentage of some other arbitrary weight once a week. None. Particularly if your quoted work set weights are accurate to begin with. Your stress accumulation/strength adaptation may need 10 days, 2-3 weeks, or longer. You may need smaller sets of reps, different set numbers, different rep numbers, different combinations of both, or even different exercises all together.

I think you’ve made great progress thus far, but I don’t think you’ve learned anything. You seem to want to shove a round peg into an increasingly not-round hole. I think it would behoove you to engage a coach if anything to help you work through the process of figuring out what you’re going to need as a long-term trainee.

Honestly the biggest problem with PPST is the book has not been revised in over a decade and strength training has made huge leaps. There are better programs. Your advice to get a coach is the best advice anyone on this forum can get. It's a culture shock to go from a place like this forum where the hubris over SS is absolutely deafening to the real world, where real coaches have used the last 30 years of advancements in physiology to develop far more effective methods. Once you realize there are coaches that don't huff their own farts putting athletes on podiums you'll wake up to a whole new world of weight training.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Honestly the biggest problem with PPST is the book has not been revised in over a decade and strength training has made huge leaps. There are better programs. Your advice to get a coach is the best advice anyone on this forum can get. It's a culture shock to go from a place like this forum where the hubris over SS is absolutely deafening to the real world, where real coaches have used the last 30 years of advancements in physiology to develop far more effective methods. Once you realize there are coaches that don't huff their own farts putting athletes on podiums you'll wake up to a whole new world of weight training.

I think you're confusing advances in marketing with advances in "physiology". But that's the hallmark of good marketing.

[Satch12879]

Honestly the biggest problem with PPST is the book has not been revised in over a decade and strength training has made huge leaps. There are better programs. Your advice to get a coach is the best advice anyone on this forum can get. It's a culture shock to go from a place like this forum where the hubris over SS is absolutely deafening to the real world, where real coaches have used the last 30 years of advancements in physiology to develop far more effective methods. Once you realize there are coaches that don't huff their own farts putting athletes on podiums you'll wake up to a whole new world of weight training.

I think you should do Griff's programming.

[Griffin727]

From the stuff I have been reading, it seems the hallmark of strength training peaked in the early 90s. Now it's just a bunch of BS of how to increase power and be faster without getting stronger, which is more trainable than any mechanism.

[MAD9692]

Honestly the biggest problem with PPST is the book has not been revised in over a decade and ANABOLIC DRUGS have made huge leaps.

Fixed

[Maybach]

At the end of every frothing screed about how Starting Strength is outdated and doesn't work is almost *the exact same program* as SS, but with like, bicep curls, barbell rows, or crunches sprinkled in.

The secret is that strength training isn't real complicated, and you can fuck it up real bad and still get 95% of the way there. And if that extra bit of fucking around contributes enough placebo effect to keep you training for longer than a year, then hell it was probably worth it.

It's that extra 5% that you have to stop fucking around to get. And if your "novice" program involves a lot of fucking around (when it costs you nearly nothing), it can be hard to make the mental adjustment to stop. It's a struggle to move in either direction: cutting volume when it's important, or adding variety when the novice program gets stale. The principles in PPST, however, remain pretty mucht he same. And strength training far afield of the SS milieu is divided into either coaches who understand these principles, but struggle to make them palatable for the purposes of commercial success, or coaches who don't, and for whom a the 95% success rate of a fuckaround program is good enough.

Stress and recovery remain king. Griff, you have been training long enough to know what constitutes an appropriate dose of either. Just titrate those two variables sensibly. Just don't get lost in the trap of thinking that your goal is to "work" yourself. The goal is to produce strength. If you're feeling beat up, you will get strong doing less. If you're feeling stuck, you will need more to get strong. Like I said, it isn't real complicated.