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Thread: Over training

  1. #11
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    • starting strength seminar april 2024
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    Try the 4 day split and see how it works for you. You'll do each lift twice a week on the upper/lower split and one Intensity and one Volume workout per day.

    Monday
    Press - 5 to 8 singles
    Bench - 5x5 @ 90% of last intensity set
    Chins - 3xF or 3x3-5 weighted

    Tuesday
    Squat 1x5
    Power Clean/Snatch 3-5x2-3 or SLDL 2x5
    Glute Ham Raises or Hip Thrusts 3x10

    Thursday
    Bench - 1x5
    Strict Press - 5x5 @ 80% of singles
    Close Grip Bench - 3x10

    Friday
    Squat - 5x5 @ 85-90% of last intensity set
    Alternate - Rack Pullx5 / Halting DLx8

    If you're not recovering, ditch the assistance work, or adjust the volume loads down to do more of a heavy/light approach. If specifically you're not recovering on the squats you can try reducing the volume load to 4 sets. You're probably at the point where you need to alternate haltings and rack pulls each week, which I would bet will solve a lot of your recovery issues. Especially since you were deadlifting twice a week before.

  2. #12
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    Apr 2023
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    It sounds like you know exactly where the top end of your recovery capacity is. Knowing this, why would you think more training volume is the answer? If you are feeling beat up, reduce volume. From what you've said that might be enough to resume progress on its own.

    You say you've got PPST: just do what that book says.

  3. #13
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    Dec 2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffin727 View Post
    Get stronger, of course this means increasing the big 4 lifts.
    Good - very focused, very concise, will provide strong guidance. Beware of other goals creeping in via unexamined thoughts or teh feelz.

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffin727 View Post
    I have always over did it in my training time to time and the program I was running was preventing me from recovering it felt.
    This is important to know, and to remember. Your tendency is to do too much - you'll need to rein it in, and do "Kentucky windage" to compensate in the direction of less and simpler. Learn from your mistakes and from those of others...ask me how I know.

    Would you be happy doing less, if it added weight to the bar? If so, then plan accordingly. If not, then return to the goals step, ask yourself why, and be brutally honest. You might have conflicting goals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffin727 View Post
    So I got the grey book to read about programming for guys past the novice and early indermidate phase. I ran the novice starting strength program and I basically stoped getting stronger after I hit 295 bench, 455 squat and 500 deadlift and that's been some years ago.
    Emphasis added - that's important. Go back to the basics now. Run the NLP as written, making yourself get your protein and rest with even greater vigor than you put into the lifting. When the weight jumps taper to very small, (which will probably be pretty quick, but still an important step) then start making small, incremental changes. You've tried adding more in the past, so why not try less this time? I'm not seeing your age/height/weight in this thread. What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffin727 View Post
    So i have just kinda been playing around with the big lifts trying to find a good mix of intensity and volume I can get stronger and recover from. Ever since I hit around mid 300 bench, mid 500 squat and late 500s deadlift I feel I'm just not recovering. Examples would be feeling like crap, performance going down and not feeling hungery till werid hours at night and of course sleep disturbances. As well all know the process of getting stronger is proper stimulus and recovery and as the lifter gets more advanced that window gets small and harder to hit. I feel this is my issue.
    Your numbers are at least good, depending on the information requested above - remember that, as numbers get higher, volume hits harder for given relative intensity. Remember also that, to add weight to the bar, volume is not an end, it's a means.

  4. #14
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    May 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Donaldson View Post
    Emphasis added - that's important. Go back to the basics now. Run the NLP as written, making yourself get your protein and rest with even greater vigor than you put into the lifting. When the weight jumps taper to very small, (which will probably be pretty quick, but still an important step) then start making small, incremental changes. You've tried adding more in the past, so why not try less this time? I'm not seeing your age/height/weight in this thread. What are they?
    Why would he do LP again? He already did it, made decent numbers, and has added weight to all his lifts since then. I don't think he's going to be adding 5lbs a workout on sets across at this point.

    OP, you're strong enough that you're capable of creating a whole bunch of stress without a bunch of volume. I think you need an intelligent intermediate program, probably tweaked for volume and frequency, so that you can accumulate stress in a way that's recoverable. A shitload of junk volume in the 60-75% of 1rm range as you described earlier isn't going to be useful and certainly doesn't resemble anything in PPST3. Without knowing more specifically what your post novice programming looked like it's hard to make suggestions, although my first thought would be some variation of the one-lift a day model. Top set, backoffs for volume, and accessories. Maybe lighter variations later in the week. A somewhat different approach would be Andy Baker's conjugate style programs.

    Setting up a consult with a good coach would be worth your time and money in my opinion.

  5. #15
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    Dec 2017
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    Weight is 252 age is 26. I pretty much stopped getting stronger at bench at 21 mind you I have had both shoulders surgically fixed when I was 24 to 225.

  6. #16
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    Dec 2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    Why would he do LP again? He already did it, made decent numbers, and has added weight to all his lifts since then. I don't think he's going to be adding 5lbs a workout on sets across at this point.
    Fair question. First, because he did it years ago. Second, he's aware that he tends toward doing too much. This approach helps rein that in.

    Third, because that's the starting point for figuring out what one's intermediate programming should be. What's the approach for someone who's been out for a significant layoff? Do an LP, knowing it'll be short, then adjust from there. The LP includes adjusting down the jumps from 5 - what is that but incremental iterative change in response to results? Same with introducing the light squat day. Same with introducing the light pull.

    If I'm not mistaken - and I welcome correction from SSCs and Rip on this - the process of adjusting the LP into intermediate programming is what eventually produces good intermediate programs. A trainee who jumps straight to a big program change (out of PPST or elsewhere) is generally missing the point. Programming change is its own stress, so the SRA cycle applies here, too. You don't jump from a 135 bench to a 315 in one big leap, so why would you make a similarly drastic jump in your programming?

    Even if Griff could jump straight to a particular intermediate program to good effect if he happened upon the right one for him, changing a bit at a time from LP will have two benefits: 1) It's far more likely to hit than to miss - change one variable at a time and all that. 2) He'll learn a lot more this way about what works for him right now.

    I'm curious: Do the self-sufficient lifter camps touch on how to develop post-novice programming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    OP, you're strong enough that you're capable of creating a whole bunch of stress without a bunch of volume. I think you need an intelligent intermediate program, probably tweaked for volume and frequency, so that you can accumulate stress in a way that's recoverable. A shitload of junk volume in the 60-75% of 1rm range as you described earlier isn't going to be useful and certainly doesn't resemble anything in PPST3. Without knowing more specifically what your post novice programming looked like it's hard to make suggestions, although my first thought would be some variation of the one-lift a day model. Top set, backoffs for volume, and accessories. Maybe lighter variations later in the week. A somewhat different approach would be Andy Baker's conjugate style programs.
    Agreed - though note all the different options here. Developing from LP one tweak at a time will help identify the effective options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    Setting up a consult with a good coach would be worth your time and money in my opinion.
    Absolutely. And a good coach will explain the why for each change, so Griff can strengthen his understanding as well as his body.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Donaldson View Post
    Fair question. First, because he did it years ago. Second, he's aware that he tends toward doing too much. This approach helps rein that in.

    Third, because that's the starting point for figuring out what one's intermediate programming should be. What's the approach for someone who's been out for a significant layoff? Do an LP, knowing it'll be short, then adjust from there. The LP includes adjusting down the jumps from 5 - what is that but incremental iterative change in response to results? Same with introducing the light squat day. Same with introducing the light pull.

    If I'm not mistaken - and I welcome correction from SSCs and Rip on this - the process of adjusting the LP into intermediate programming is what eventually produces good intermediate programs. A trainee who jumps straight to a big program change (out of PPST or elsewhere) is generally missing the point. Programming change is its own stress, so the SRA cycle applies here, too. You don't jump from a 135 bench to a 315 in one big leap, so why would you make a similarly drastic jump in your programming?

    Even if Griff could jump straight to a particular intermediate program to good effect if he happened upon the right one for him, changing a bit at a time from LP will have two benefits: 1) It's far more likely to hit than to miss - change one variable at a time and all that. 2) He'll learn a lot more this way about what works for him right now.

    I'm curious: Do the self-sufficient lifter camps touch on how to develop post-novice programming?



    Agreed - though note all the different options here. Developing from LP one tweak at a time will help identify the effective options.



    Absolutely. And a good coach will explain the why for each change, so Griff can strengthen his understanding as well as his body.
    I think honestly it's more of a junk volume issue. Like I have said before when you get closer to your genetic potential you have to be closer to the proper amount of stimulus need in order to gain 5 pounds on each lift a month. Im thinking of running the 4 day bill starr program rip has in the grey book. It runs a hard day and light day for the squat and bench and press and of course just 1 hard deadlift day. There seem to be 2 to 3 accessory lift that come along with each day I'll just need be careful not to over so those such as hitting failure on the 1st set.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffin727 View Post
    Like I have said before when you get closer to your genetic potential you have to be closer to the proper amount of stimulus need in order to gain 5 pounds on each lift a month.
    Are you suggesting that you're getting close to your genetic potential?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Are you suggesting that you're getting close to your genetic potential?
    Its possible, I mean I'm more likely to be average then not average. There again following the program's in grey book could show that I'm also just indermidate. Only a trial effort will tell. I just struggle doing the big 3 all in one day with my the weight I can usually use if I just focus on 1 of the big 3 each training session. Example hard to preform the bench 5x5 with true maxium after I have done 5x5 with squat with full intensity.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Enjoy your training.

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