Stalling on the deadlift. Run it out, or reset 5%?

[BrandonBanton]

I’m on the four day split, referring to Practical Programming has answered all my questions so far. I know it says to “Run it out” which I’m doing with squats (hitting lifetime pr’s every week!) but two weeks ago I got 3 reps with 395 on deadlift. Rested a few minutes, got a double. Last week I was pissed I quit early, got 4 but the last one I was losing control of my low back, rep 5 didn’t budge. Rested a few minutes and got it. So, should I run it out with two triples down 5 singles, or reset 5% like the book says THEN run it out when I fail a set of 5 again? Thanks in advance.

[Maybach]

You don't say which 4 day split you are using, but I'm going to assume you're talking about the 4 day TM since you talk about running out a heavy set.

The discussion of the TM is pretty clear that the running out process should be pre-planned as much as possible, not reactively performed when you start missing reps. I'd say you should reset slightly to try and hit 395 for 5, then start breaking it out into triples. It's a done thing to reset a little bit when the rep range changes anyway and you are very close to pulling that for 5 so probably resetting by only two, or even just one week should get you the 1x5.

This is assuming that is the correct thing to adjust. The TM splits represent kind of an increase in deadlift programming from the end of novice programming, and so can be susceptible to overtraining. You can probably get a few more weeks of 5s progress if you started cycling through haltings, rack pulls, and full deadlifts.

What does your volume day look like? Are you doing cleans and snatches for that? If the volume day feels like but the intensity day starts to stall the answer is often to increase volume day pulling. It seems most people find that dynamic pulls stop driving deadlift progress a bit earlier than PPST indicates, especially if they're not especially good at them. You might try adding in another slow pull like an underloaded deadlift variation, or even just volume deadlifts.

[alexmunropga@gmail.com]

Need more info, age, weight, height. Are you sure it’s a strength issue and not a grip issue? Have you tried strapping the deadlifts?

[BrandonBanton]

You don't say which 4 day split you are using, but I'm going to assume you're talking about the 4 day TM since you talk about running out a heavy set.

The discussion of the TM is pretty clear that the running out process should be pre-planned as much as possible, not reactively performed when you start missing reps. I'd say you should reset slightly to try and hit 395 for 5, then start breaking it out into triples. It's a done thing to reset a little bit when the rep range changes anyway and you are very close to pulling that for 5 so probably resetting by only two, or even just one week should get you the 1x5.

This is assuming that is the correct thing to adjust. The TM splits represent kind of an increase in deadlift programming from the end of novice programming, and so can be susceptible to overtraining. You can probably get a few more weeks of 5s progress if you started cycling through haltings, rack pulls, and full deadlifts.

What does your volume day look like? Are you doing cleans and snatches for that? If the volume day feels like but the intensity day starts to stall the answer is often to increase volume day pulling. It seems most people find that dynamic pulls stop driving deadlift progress a bit earlier than PPST indicates, especially if they're not especially good at them. You might try adding in another slow pull like an underloaded deadlift variation, or even just volume deadlifts.

Yes, the Texas method. Monday: Intensity bench/ volume press. Tuesday: Volume squats/chins Thursday: Intensity press/volume bench. Friday: intensity squats/DL

Unfortunately I’m a physical idiot and never got down the Olympic lifts without agitating the hell out of my shoulders. You bringing it up really does make me think I need more pulling volume.

Need more info, age, weight, height. Are you sure it’s a strength issue and not a grip issue? Have you tried strapping the deadlifts?

I knew I forgot something. I’m 32, weigh 225. And yes, I’m strapping…They made all the difference when I got to about 365.

Need more info, age, weight, height. Are you sure it’s a strength issue and not a grip issue? Have you tried strapping the deadlifts?

Also I’m 6’2.

[Matt James]

What does your volume day look like? Are you doing cleans and snatches for that? If the volume day feels like but the intensity day starts to stall the answer is often to increase volume day pulling. It seems most people find that dynamic pulls stop driving deadlift progress a bit earlier than PPST indicates, especially if they're not especially good at them. You might try adding in another slow pull like an underloaded deadlift variation, or even just volume deadlifts.

I agree, we need to know what his other pulling work looks like, as well as the loading for his squat volume and intensity. One of the challenges of the 4-day TM is figuring out how to get enough pulling stress that can still be recovered from between Tuesday and Friday. There's a good chance that cleans and snatches aren't enough to drive progress, but an equally good chance that adding another pulling variation on Tuesday is going to be too much to recover from within the week. One option is to continue doing fast pulls on Tuesday and do a biweekly progression on Friday. Week one would be sets across with a variation or possibly just deadlifts around 80% of the week two target, and week two would be the heavy five, eventually progressing through lower rep ranges. Alternating with heavy variations like rack pulls and haltings could work too.

OP, give us your stats. Age, height, weight, and volume/intensity loads for all your lifts.

[Matt James]

Yes, the Texas method. Monday: Intensity bench/ volume press. Tuesday: Volume squats/chins Thursday: Intensity press/volume bench. Friday: intensity squats/DL

Unfortunately I’m a physical idiot and never got down the Olympic lifts without agitating the hell out of my shoulders. You bringing it up really does make me think I need more pulling volume.


I knew I forgot something. I’m 32, weigh 225. And yes, I’m strapping…They made all the difference when I got to about 365.



Also I’m 6’2.

Yeah, definitely are going to need more pulling volume. How you organize that is going to depend on your recovery capabilities and balancing that with whatever your squat loads are. You could add a deadlift variation on Tuesday and see how it goes. I'd probably drop your top set down 10-15 pounds and start conservatively, maybe 3 sets of stiff legs on Tuesday and see how that impacts your Friday workout.

The other option in the short term is to switch to a top triple on Friday and do a couple of backoff triples at around 90%. This would probably get you moving again for several weeks. Eventually you are still going to have to figure out how to impose more stress over a timeline that's recoverable--how you do that is going to depend on how well you can recover.

In addition to your current squat load, where was your deadlift at the end of your NLP?

[Maybach]

If you don't do dynamic pulls, RDLs, SGDLs, SLDLs, or even just volume deadlifts are pretty easy volume day pulls provided you aren't stupid. Try adding 3x5 RDLs at 60% of your intensity day deadlift on your squat day and see how that goes. That levered me out of the end of stalled NLP pulling quite nicely.

SLDLs and SGDLs should probably be operated at a greater offset (50% or less), but if you find they target what you perceive to be a weak link in your pulling, you can try them instead.

[BrandonBanton]

Thanks Matt. My only other pulling is 3 sets of chins to failure with bodyweight on Tuesday. The end of my LP I was losing control of my low back, the fix was to reset and only pull once a week. I’ve just been doing that since it’s been working well. No cleans or snatches. As the book says,I’m resetting my volume weights besides bench since it already feels easy. Before I reset this evening, volume squats 5x5 with 325, intensity 3x2 with 360. Volume bench was 5x5 with 235, intensity day was 267.5 x5. Volume press 5x5 with 150 and just basically 5 singles with 167.5. Chins were 12,7,5 with bodyweight, which is 225. I’m 32, 6’2 in height.

Should I just do a set or two on Tuesday with 85% of Friday’s weight?

[asm44]

I don't think you need more pulling volume. A heavy once a week deadlift is a lot. Although, yours are not that heavy yet so if you did a volume day it probably wouldn't hurt that much but I'm skeptical that it helps.

I run similar programming to you, and I've only been deadlifting once every other week.

You're a little light for 6'2, but also not that strong. Maybe 20lbs of bodyweight and a quick revisit to the NLP will get you there. Then your intensity days would be more intense and you probably don't need to worry about volume. But idk, just a thought.

[Matt James]

If you're going to do standard deadlifts for volume I wouldn't go over 80% of Friday's weight.