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Thread: programming help

  1. #1
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    Default programming help

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    I'm looking for some advice about where I should go next. I'm at about the end of my NLP. I've been incorporating some advanced NLP (5x1, 5x2) the past month or so. Many of my lifts are on a hybrid type of NLP programming, I'll explain below in more detail. I've still been successful in adding weight to the bar with this. I know that it is coming to its end. I have been training since September, and am quite happy with the results.

    I workout on a T/Th/S schedule
    Current numbers are:

    Squat: 390x5, 340x5x2

    Today's footage on 390: 390x5 - YouTube

    Press: 182x3x5

    Bench: 300x5x3 (gonna switch to triples next workout)

    Deadlift: 420x5

    I attempted 425 today, failed, and hurt my back on rep two (425 fail - YouTube)

    This was my fault, reading over the book it clearly shows that you don't want to attempt a new 5rm deadlift on the same day you hit a new 5rm squat.

    Some clarifications/questions:

    My press/bench are continuing linear progress. I am able to microload 2 pounds each workout. Will I be getting enough stress if I switch to 3x3? I have been sticking with 3x5 because the weight keeps going up with each rep and I feel I am getting enough stress to keep driving linear progress on these lifts.

    I plan on switching back to a "one day on, two day off" schedule after this week. I was originally doing that but I have entered Fire/Emt school and for now working out T/Th/S is convenient. I do see the light, and realize that the extra rest will be beneficial to keep driving this linear progress, so I will implement it after this week. I am going for 395x5 on Saturday, then I plan to switch to triples on the squat.

    I understand that I am on the cusp of moving into intermediate programming, but I still feel I can milk a few more weeks of liner progress on my lifts, especially on my presses.

    Is there any experienced advice from this group on what I should or should not be doing? Any help is appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigNaz42 View Post
    I'm looking for some advice about where I should go next. I'm at about the end of my NLP. I've been incorporating some advanced NLP (5x1, 5x2) the past month or so. Many of my lifts are on a hybrid type of NLP programming, I'll explain below in more detail. I've still been successful in adding weight to the bar with this. I know that it is coming to its end. I have been training since September, and am quite happy with the results.

    I workout on a T/Th/S schedule
    Current numbers are:

    Squat: 390x5, 340x5x2

    Today's footage on 390: 390x5 - YouTube

    Press: 182x3x5

    Bench: 300x5x3 (gonna switch to triples next workout)

    Deadlift: 420x5

    I attempted 425 today, failed, and hurt my back on rep two (425 fail - YouTube)

    This was my fault, reading over the book it clearly shows that you don't want to attempt a new 5rm deadlift on the same day you hit a new 5rm squat.

    Some clarifications/questions:

    My press/bench are continuing linear progress. I am able to microload 2 pounds each workout. Will I be getting enough stress if I switch to 3x3? I have been sticking with 3x5 because the weight keeps going up with each rep and I feel I am getting enough stress to keep driving linear progress on these lifts.

    I plan on switching back to a "one day on, two day off" schedule after this week. I was originally doing that but I have entered Fire/Emt school and for now working out T/Th/S is convenient. I do see the light, and realize that the extra rest will be beneficial to keep driving this linear progress, so I will implement it after this week. I am going for 395x5 on Saturday, then I plan to switch to triples on the squat.

    I understand that I am on the cusp of moving into intermediate programming, but I still feel I can milk a few more weeks of liner progress on my lifts, especially on my presses.

    Is there any experienced advice from this group on what I should or should not be doing? Any help is appreciated.
    Are you not incorporating a light squat day? That is, are the topsets and backoffs on squats done every day of the week? If not, you should do that, and move your pulls to that day.

    The upper body lifts are easy to get lost up the proverbial garden path by pulling volume. If you're going to switch to triples you need to keep overall volume the same: 5x3, instead of 3x5. You'll probably need to introduce 5x5s at some point to progress, sooner rather than later.

    Power cleans are. not. optional.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybach View Post
    Are you not incorporating a light squat day? That is, are the topsets and backoffs on squats done every day of the week? If not, you should do that, and move your pulls to that day.

    The upper body lifts are easy to get lost up the proverbial garden path by pulling volume. If you're going to switch to triples you need to keep overall volume the same: 5x3, instead of 3x5. You'll probably need to introduce 5x5s at some point to progress, sooner rather than later.

    Power cleans are. not. optional.
    I forgot to include those. I power clean and have a light squat day.

    When you say 5x3 do you mean three sets of five? I am currently doing five sets of three.

  4. #4
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    Reps are always the second number, so 3x5 = 3 sets of 5, and 5x3= 5 sets of 3. I was saying when you switch to triples, you need to add two more sets: don't do 3x3 on presses after you've been doing 3x5.

    You're already pretty much on intermediate programming pretty much for every lift, except for presses. Going to one on/two off isn't going to help you any. Think about it: one on two off has you making an increase every 6 days, less than that for the deadlift, but with novice volumes. It's EASIER, not HARDER, than the novice progression.

    It's important to think of intermediate program additively, not subtractively: how can you ADD volume in, not how can you take it away. Reducing workloads is only ever done as a way to make room for subsequent increases. For example, the introduction of a light squat day is done with the expectation that it will EXCEED your heavy weight. Triples are done was a way to increase total tonnage. Don't get caught in the trap of trying to "take a break."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybach View Post
    Reps are always the second number, so 3x5 = 3 sets of 5, and 5x3= 5 sets of 3. I was saying when you switch to triples, you need to add two more sets: don't do 3x3 on presses after you've been doing 3x5.

    You're already pretty much on intermediate programming pretty much for every lift, except for presses. Going to one on/two off isn't going to help you any. Think about it: one on two off has you making an increase every 6 days, less than that for the deadlift, but with novice volumes. It's EASIER, not HARDER, than the novice progression.

    It's important to think of intermediate program additively, not subtractively: how can you ADD volume in, not how can you take it away. Reducing workloads is only ever done as a way to make room for subsequent increases. For example, the introduction of a light squat day is done with the expectation that it will EXCEED your heavy weight. Triples are done was a way to increase total tonnage. Don't get caught in the trap of trying to "take a break."
    Hey, Iím looking at the grey book right now, and this is incorrect. Itís weight x reps x sets

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybach View Post
    Reps are always the second number, so 3x5 = 3 sets of 5, and 5x3= 5 sets of 3. I was saying when you switch to triples, you need to add two more sets: don't do 3x3 on presses after you've been doing 3x5.

    You're already pretty much on intermediate programming pretty much for every lift, except for presses. Going to one on/two off isn't going to help you any. Think about it: one on two off has you making an increase every 6 days, less than that for the deadlift, but with novice volumes. It's EASIER, not HARDER, than the novice progression.

    It's important to think of intermediate program additively, not subtractively: how can you ADD volume in, not how can you take it away. Reducing workloads is only ever done as a way to make room for subsequent increases. For example, the introduction of a light squat day is done with the expectation that it will EXCEED your heavy weight. Triples are done was a way to increase total tonnage. Don't get caught in the trap of trying to "take a break."
    I have noted in the book, as well on some articles and conversations Rip has had, that when heavy weights are being handled ("heavy" referring to advanced levels of lifter/weights) that it is necessary to have less exposure to these stresses. The type of stresses I am referring to are pr setting stresses for an advanced lvl lifter. I am speaking about people who are squatting 600 plus, Deadlifting 700 plus. I assume that this is advice for an older lifter as well. I assume this is because this type of event is so stressful that the body can't handle a ton of exposure or else it wont be able to recover in time for the next workout. In an advanced lifter disrupting homeostasis is hard and requires much more diverse and dynamic training regimens, it could take months of training for them to work up to a PR. Can you clarify this? Why is less exposure to these high stresses beneficial?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Kalin View Post
    Hey, I’m looking at the grey book right now, and this is incorrect. It’s weight x reps x sets
    But if you put the sets first, reps are second. Like, "3 sets of 5 at 495," or "495 for 5 for 3 sets." So reps are always second.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Kalin View Post
    Hey, Iím looking at the grey book right now, and this is incorrect. Itís weight x reps x sets
    Like I said: reps are always the second number.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigNaz42 View Post
    I have noted in the book, as well on some articles and conversations Rip has had, that when heavy weights are being handled ("heavy" referring to advanced levels of lifter/weights) that it is necessary to have less exposure to these stresses. The type of stresses I am referring to are pr setting stresses for an advanced lvl lifter. I am speaking about people who are squatting 600 plus, Deadlifting 700 plus. I assume that this is advice for an older lifter as well. I assume this is because this type of event is so stressful that the body can't handle a ton of exposure or else it wont be able to recover in time for the next workout. In an advanced lifter disrupting homeostasis is hard and requires much more diverse and dynamic training regimens, it could take months of training for them to work up to a PR. Can you clarify this? Why is less exposure to these high stresses beneficial?
    Because less frequent exposure to higher stresses allows for sufficient volume in the interim periods to drive adaptation.

    The principle which governs progression between training levels is an increased difficulty in actually provoking the body into an adaptive response. At a certain point in your training, your limit effort on any exercise (whether that is 3x5 of a heavy set on the squat or presses, or 1x5 of a heavy set of deadlifts) will be quite intense, but your body will, given how much of your capacity for adaptation it has devoted to strength, simply interpret that is the limit of what you are likely to encounter. A limit effort might be enough to recover from in day or two, but you will not adapt to be stronger than you were.

    The presses already work this way from the start, because the lifts are inherently less stressful and less efficient, and so they work as a good illustration of this underlying principle. Let's say someone decided to do the program "bench only." Let's say they progress beyond very early novice adaptations, and can bench 225x5x3 for a limit effort. They can't do a single rep more. If they bench this on Monday, their body will not interpret that as a stress which is "worth" adapting to. It will be hard, but they've been benching for a while, their body has already devoted a great deal of its adaptive capacity (which is finite after all) to become strong, and after all: they got the weight up. As far as their body knows, they are strong enough. When they walk in on Wednesday, they are just as strong as they were Monday. So when they load 227.5 on the bar, they are not strong enough to get it for 3x5. They might get a single set of five, or they might not.

    However, if they have been benching and pressing, when they walk in on Wednesday, they don't load a bench press. They load a press, which is a lighter weight, but is also a limit effort for that lift. Their body goes "oh, we not only have to be strong enough to bench 225 on Monday, but to press 150 on Wednesday, we had better get stronger." And so, on Friday, the process of adapting to both of those stimuli has been completed, and they can now bench 227.5, and the cycle begins again.

    Two factors make this more complicated in the full picture: one, the limits of an effort are not merely the most you can do in a single workout, but how much you can do and recover from. And two: the different nature of different lifts both biomechanically and physiologically make the incorporation of different stresses more or less straightforward. The press and bench form a "matched pair", but they relate to each other differently than the deadlift and the power clean, and the squat has no such partner (except perhaps the paused/pin squat and the high bar squat, but these are inconsistently useful).

    When you make adjustments to transition to intermediate programming, you "pull" volume: transitioning to triples, backoff sets, light days, etc. But that's because a full scale limit effort is no longer sufficient, and will wipe you out without provoking an adaptation. The dose of stress you "need" in a given workout is actually beyond your current capacity to perform. So, you lighten the load, allow the slight "peaking" effect to carry you through the reduced training stimulus, until you are moving weights a few weeks into the programming change that are heavier than what you were lifting before.

    In the pressing example, you could imagine a trainee who "pressed only," and didn't include bench. When he hits his snag, what he would do is reset his press by 10%, then bench 100% of the weight he was pressing. This would be easier than what he WAS doing, but he can't press the heavier weight. However, 2-4 weeks into this programming change, he would be pressing more than he was before he started it, and benching far more than either. This is how your light days/topsets and backoffs work. If your "light" work isn't eventually exceeding your "heavy" work, you've removed too much volume too aggressively. The bench would be a different event than anything he has experienced during the "press only" start of his misapplied NLP, but only after it has "ripened" to be sufficiently heavier than his previous presses. The squat with it's light day and topsets and backoffs work the same way. Your topset/heavy day becomes a large dose of stress in *excess* of what you were doing during your NLP, and your backoffs/light days are your "regular squats", that function much the same way as the stress you were applying as a novice did.

    Advanced lifters undergo the same thing, just on a larger time scale. Their PR is not the same PR as your novice day PRs, nor is it the same as an intermediate's heavy day PR. The PR is a massively stressful event, which is combined with a whole block of training to drive the PR on subsequent blocks. But they don't train *less* than a novice or an intermediate. Their "light weight" is your heavy weight, and treats them more or less the same (500 pounds is 500 pounds, and has mostly the same absolute effect on pretty much every normal sized and shaped human). They just have the addition of less frequent PR events that continue to drive long term increases.

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