5/3/1 Novice Question

[Paul Sousa]

It's none of my business what you do or what your reasons are for doing it, so I'm not preaching here. But since you're posting here, asking advice on how to customizing an advanced program to a novice, then I'll tell you simply: putting a novice on 5/3/1 instead of a program designed for novices (like SS) is asinine, and doing it just because it is more convenient for you is kind of a shitty thing to do. Not trying to be a dick, but that's the plain truth.

As opposed to him not even picking up a barbell? I'm not doing it because it's convenient for me, I'm doing it because it's what he's willing to do schedule wise. And if you've read the rest of this thread you'll see I am looking for the best possible programming for him within the constraints of my schedule. I have moved past modifying 5/3/1 for him. I asked if my idea made sense and it was a resounding no. The fact is he wants to train when I train. Are you saying I should just tell him to not even bother training since he can't do SS?

[Raskolnikov]

Am I missing something, or is there a reason your friend can't follow SS while you follow 5/3/1? Follow a M, W, F, S schedule, lift in a power rack, and you guys can workout together. At least that way your friend can still reap the benefits of higher frequency and linear progression. Because if he's a rank beginner, he's just waisting time on 5/3/1. Shoot, he'd be better off just squatting, benching, pulling, and pressing once a week with linear progression than he would be following 5/3/1. At least that way your friend can add 5-10lbs a week to all his lifts rather than 5-10lbs a month. 5/3/1 is designed for slow (very slow), steady progress...not exactly ideal for a beginner.

[hillbilly]

Wendler says in the FAQ section that he's used 5/3/1 with both begginers and advanced lifters with success. (of course I don't know how much of that success is due to the threat of teabagging.)

Possibbly a complete begginner could get away with missing the programmed deload in order to speed things up a bit?

[Raskolnikov]

It may work just fine, but it's simple math: The frequency and linear progression built in to SS will lead to faster progress for a beginner than is possible with 5/3/1 (assuming said beginner eats properly). Again, no one is saying 5/3/1 wont work, it just wont work nearly as well.

[hillbilly]

True. But is there any hurry?

[Raskolnikov]

None, I suppose. But why not pick the most efficient means possible? I just don't see the conflict. One program has you in the gym 3 - 4 times per week, the other 3 times per week -- what's stopping the OP and his friend from going to the gym on the same days? Worse case scenario, the OP will simply be going by himself once a week. They can even workout together using the exact same equipment (if that's for some reason necessary) if they don't mind the inconvenience of shifting equipment around (a barbell, bench, and rack are all either program necessitates). The two don't have to be following the same program to workout together.

[Paul Sousa]

The M/Tu/Tr/F schedule is due to sports. I'll be playing football on Saturdays and basketball on Sundays so I am following that in order to not train more than two days in a row. And I am not stuck on him having to do 5/3/1, it was just the thought I had. I am going to habe him do some form of linear progression based on the schedule I'm on as laid out earlier in the thread.

[Smiler Grogan]

My thinking is pretty much the same as Raskolnikov. Take him to the gym with you, whether that's 3 or 4 days a week, claim a power rack, you do your 5-3-1 and he does his linear progression. I don't think it has to be any harder than that. This is his one time to make awesome beginner gains, why not do that as efficiently and quickly as possible? Seems easy.

[StLRPh]

Next month I will be training with a friend of mine who is very much a novice. He is 22yo/5'8"/145lbs and had very little barbell experience. I am planning on having him do Wendler's 5/3/1 since that is what I am currently doing, but I am thinking about increasing the percentages on many of the sets. For instance, on the first week of the cycle instead of 65/75/85% I am thinking about having him do 75/80/85%. I would do the same for the rest of the weeks in the cycle as well. I am also thinking about adding 10lbs. to the base number for bench and press for the next 4 week cycle, and 15 lbs. for the squat and DL (instead of the recommended 5 and 10 lb. increases). I am thinking since he is a complete novice that he could handle this increased workload for maybe four cycle?

Anyone with some experience with this program think it would work?

I've done the program and had a similar question which I asked to Jim at EliteFTS. His response was to do the program as written.

I also asked if he thought it was a good program for beginners and he said abolutely.

For the monthly increases you can probably be a little more aggressive the first time or two. The weights will certainly catch up pretty quickly especially if he is just starting out and his maxes are probably not that high to begin with. 10lbs may not sound like much but it may be a significant % of his max.

It all boils down to what you think he'll enjoy and stick with. The program works, SS works, 5x5 works, WS4SB works, etc...

One thing that is really nice about 5/3/1 is that you can more easily see your progress in the form of consistently breaking your PRs and seeing your projected max improve on a normal basis.

Good luck

[Paul Sousa]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the thoughts and opinions on it. I think I will go with this schedule for him (it was suggested earlier and I like it):

Mon - Squat/Press
Tues - PC/Chins
Thur - Squat/Bench
Fri - DL/Pull-ups

What should the starting increments be? I'm thinking 10 lbs. each time he squats, 5 lbs, each time he presses/benches, and 15 or 20 lbs. each time he DLs?