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Thread: Lifting - intensity?

  1. #11
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    • starting strength seminar april 2024
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    I didn't know starting threads was against the rules... I like learning about fitness and strength training, so I ask questions when I have them.

    Hollis: I'm doing chinups, not pullups, and SS2E indicates using chins as an assistance exercize to help your bench, not hurt it. Also, my bench press isn't struggling. It's going up consistently. Doing chins after each WORKOUT is differently from the word "DAILY" which means EVERY DAY.... just like doing squats 3x a week isnt' "DAILY".

    The reason I do chins was because I was doing fairly high volume 5x5 pullups and deadlifts frequently before starting the program, and the deadlifts alone weren't enough. I decided to try adding them (lightly) at the end of each workout. It hasn't affected my growth or recovery, the primary reason for leaving something like chins out of the program. Further, I'm not doing chins to failure, which is how they are programmed in some of the workouts. I am doing them just at the end of a workout to get a little bit more work in my arms and upper back.

    I'm getting stronger, my deadlifts are still going up in 20 pound jumps. If my recovery ever becomes a problem, then i'll take them out.
    Last edited by tweakxc03; 03-19-2010 at 08:40 AM.

  2. #12
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    You just stated that the chins aren't afffecting your growth or recovery, and that you are not doing them to failure, like the program calls for. Are you growing or not? The program only works when followed properly.

    Please restate your problem. I'm confused now.

    Maybe less frequency at a higher intensity would help. Switching from a high volume program to a low to medium volume/high intensity program (novice) can induce muscle growth quite nicely.

    Either that, or ditch the novice program.

    At any rate, some people find that particular body parts grow faster than others... I'd be suspect if you aren't following the routine though. Submax chins 3 times a week aren't as effective as maximal chins 1-2 times per week.

  3. #13
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    tiburon: I've gone from 185 to 196... 6'3"

    forgive me for the lengthy post... but...

    for the others... JESUS CHRIST IGNORE THE FUCKING CHINS. this is not the issue and has nothing to do with the original question. Forget i ever mentioned it.

    Damonwells: I am guessing you haven't been on here long enough to understand the program or it's purpose... either that or you misread my post. I stated that my inclusion of the chins were not HINDERING my recovery (nothing about "not affecting growth"). I added the chins in for a specific fucking purpose. The decision was made based on more senior members' recommendations and observations. prior to starting the program, i'd been training pullups and deadlifts (although at a lighter weight) extensively (5x5 of each in the same workout). my legs and lower back were taking longer to catch up in the deadlifts/squats/cleans, so my upper body wasn't getting much of a workout from single set deadlifts (this was somewhat early on).

    so, I added in the chins 3 sets each workout as a supplement to see what would happen. I started off with 3 sets of chins (x5 x4 x3), but not going to total failure, with the goal of progressing on them in a linear fashion, but weekly, not per workout. (so i increased the total reps by 1 or 2 each week rather than every workout). I probably could have done them to failure, sure, but i did not want to risk hindering recovery for the primary lifts (i.e., deadlifts). so, my chins have improved steadily, and i've added nearly 100 pounds to my deadlift.

    For those of you who say i'm not "following the program"... my workouts are this:

    Workout A
    Squats 3x5
    Bench 3x5
    Deadlift 1x5
    Chins 3 sets (currently doing BW X6 x5 x5)

    Workout B
    Squats 3x5
    Press 3x5
    Cleans 5x3
    Chins 3 sets (same as workout A)

    Again, the chins were added for a specific purpose. If my strength gains or ability to recover slows down or starts struggling in response to the assistance exercize, then I will remove them. Until then, i'll continue the linear progress.

    I don't understand it when people can't think logically and apply what they read and learn to their own situation. that is the purpose of assistance exercizes and programming. that is why there is more than just 1 "official" novice program (i.e., SS2E Onus Wunsler, Practical Programming Novice, Wichita Falls Novice, etc.).

    moving on...

    My question was more in response to the slow progression of my bench press and overhead press in comparison to squats and deadlifts. naturally, they involve smaller muscle groups, so the progression will be slower. My point was that it seems like the INTENSITY on those lifts seems lower. The weights for the work sets are progressing.

    So, in short: Deadlifts and squats are kicking my ass. I am lightheaded and a little dizzy at the end of my squat sets. they hurt. they are intense.

    the bench and press aren't as intense, at least not right now. I can't help but think that is part of the difference in progress in terms of size gains.

    discussion as to why?:
    1. bench and press both have shorter ranges of motion than the squat or deadlift
    2. bench and press involve fewer muscle grousp compared to squat/deadlift.
    3. other?

    I ask questions like these to learn, so ignore my rant.
    Last edited by tweakxc03; 03-19-2010 at 11:03 AM.

  4. #14
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    A heavy bench will never be quite as "intense" as a heavy squat or deadlift. Your bench will start to feel more intense as time goes on. At the beginning, your body simply isn't capable of expending enough yet. In terms of both strength and size in relation to genetic potential, the bench and the press are more "slow and steady" for a lot of people than the squat. Go by what's in your log book. As long as the numbers are going up, you're making progress. You have to be patient, because if you keep applying yourself, you will get that progress.

    But, yeah, it's mostly both 1 and 2. Fewer muscles over a shorter range of motion for less weight. On a deadlift or squat, you can just grind and grind against a very heavy weight and everything in your body is straining. It takes quite a bit of time to develop enough strength and technique on the bench or the press to move heavy enough weights where that's the case.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweakxc03 View Post
    discussion as to why?:
    1. bench and press both have shorter ranges of motion than the squat or deadlift
    2. bench and press involve fewer muscle grousp compared to squat/deadlift.
    3. other?

    I ask questions like these to learn, so ignore my rant.
    Squats and Deads involve almost the whole body to complete a rep. You are using the largest muscles in the body as compared to Bench and OH press. Hell, I need about 3 minutes between sets for Squats (290) to catch my breath. With Bench about 60-90 seconds will do. I imagine if I did curls, I could bang out 3 sets in about 4 minutes with rest - lol, curls - ha ha.

    It comes down to muscle size and how many are involved.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweakxc03 View Post
    Damonwells: I am guessing you haven't been on here long enough to understand the program or it's purpose... either that or you misread my post.
    The decision was made based on more senior members' recommendations and observations.
    Tweak,

    I'd be wary of taking the advice of members on this board just because they're "senior members." Perhaps Damon misread your post, but I'd say he knows what he's talking about (unlike some others). He's mentioned in another post that he's squatted over 800lbs. Maybe he's lying maybe he's not, but in any case, I think GZT answered your question.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by damonwells View Post
    Submax chins 3 times a week aren't as effective as maximal chins 1-2 times per week.
    According to whom? You? Your gym buddies? Your next door neighbor?

    -s.
    Last edited by nisora33; 03-19-2010 at 12:17 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameson View Post
    Tweak,

    I'd be wary of taking the advice of members on this board just because they're "senior members." Perhaps Damon misread your post, but I'd say he knows what he's talking about (unlike some others). He's mentioned in another post that he's squatted over 800lbs. Maybe he's lying maybe he's not, but in any case, I think GZT answered your question.
    well, GZT was one of the posters involved in the aforementioned discussion on adding chins to my workouts.
    GZT? you been lyin to me? haha

    As for the chins issue... the point i was making about that was 1 or 2 posters made a comment about chinups because it didn't fit in exactly with one of the given templates, which diverted the discussion off into uselss nonsense.
    Last edited by tweakxc03; 03-19-2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason: misread post

  9. #19
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    What did I say? You start so many threads it's hard to remember. I think I probably said something along the lines of, "If you really want to add chins, add chins. They won't kill you and probably won't hold you back. If they do interfere, drop them." Anyway. This isn't rocket surgery. Work hard, add weight to your lifts, don't get greedy, and things will even out eventually. You need to think in, like, 2-4 month chunks. 2.5# per workout on the bench over 3 months is "slow" right now, but you'll someday appreciate that it's bloody fast.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    right now i'm going up 5 pounds a workout for bench.

    all i'm getting at is something totally unrelated (chins) to this post has been blown way out of proportion. yes, i guess i do start a lot of threads... but that is because i have a lot of questions. some are stupid questions, some are probably good ones.... but i can't learn without asking them.

    oh, and i'm probably a little OCD... i tend to hyperfocus when i am learning something new.

    bottom line:
    1. the chins have helped.
    2. i am stronger. recovery isn't hurting.
    3. i'm an impatient asshole that wants to get larger and stronger faster.

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