Should I use a clean diet when starting SS?

[Eanderson]

grains are a 'new' food for us on an evolutionary scale and aren't needed.

What research supports this claim that we haven't adapted to eating grains?

Also, ditto what nisora33 said about calorie restriction. If you lost weight on paleo, nice job, but all it means is that you were eating too much when you included carbs.

Just know how many calories you need and are eating, and don't skimp on the protein.

[blowdpanis]

There's a difference between a diet that consists of only (or mostly) things Paleo man or woman would have eaten, and the Paleo Diet, which has you weighing and measuring everything.

-S.

Here's my take on the paleo thing (I'll copy a poste I made on a friend's facebook)...

If you treat diet like one of those calculus optimization problems in which you try to optimize

1) Adequate protein
2) Adequate essential fatty acids
3) micronutrient intake (minerals, vitamins, etc)
4) satiety (getting the most bang for your buck, energy-wise)

You wind up with something that looks pretty paleo-ish. But beyond that, the dogmatic insistence of not eating foods that weren't around 40,000 years ago is pretty silly. Even most modern fruit wasn't around in its present form back then, as an example. As such, minus a time machine, the best we can do is simply have a plant-based diet that more or less satisfies the above, without worrying about silly minutia, in my humble opinion.

There is a logic to what the paleo people are talking about. It's more complex than the pop culture understanding of evolutionary theory, though diet does has an obvious relationship to fitness (propensity to pass on genetic material to subsequent generations), and as such, our evolutionary history very obviously has something to do with the types of food that our "good" for us. I just don't think it's nearly as black/white as "cavemen ate it, ergo it's good," or vice versa.

[nisora33]

Here's my take on the paleo thing (I'll copy a poste I made on a friend's facebook)...

If you treat diet like one of those calculus optimization problems in which you try to optimize

1) Adequate protein
2) Adequate essential fatty acids
3) micronutrient intake (minerals, vitamins, etc)
4) satiety (getting the most bang for your buck, energy-wise)

You wind up with something that looks pretty paleo-ish. But beyond that, the dogmatic insistence of not eating foods that weren't around 40,000 years ago is pretty silly. Even most modern fruit wasn't around in its present form back then, as an example. As such, minus a time machine, the best we can do is simply have a plant-based diet that more or less satisfies the above, without worrying about silly minutia, in my humble opinion.

+1

[bowdirk]

What research supports this claim that we haven't adapted to eating grains?

I didn't say that we haven't adapted to eating grains, I said they weren't necessary.

Humans have evolved for 100,000 years on meat and weeds, agricultural practices that allowed for collection and processing of enough grain to 'count' is at most only 10-15000 years old. We obviously survived without the grains.

The OP is not a 135# teenager, he does not need the level of caloric excess that another trainee does. He does need to eat lots of protein, with enough of a caloric excess to grow muscle. He can't do GOMAD. If he can get enough protein and calories by eating meat and weeds, that IMHO is the best way for him to go.

Eat enought meat and weeds to recover, repair, and grow is all you need to do diet wise. If you can't get enough calories or protein from meat, milk, and weeds due to budget reasons etc., eat more of what you can afford, oatmeal kicks ass.

Ya don't need to make this shit complicated... I don't thnk the OP is looking to a 'tiny shiny thong' poser guy on a stage just yet.

-Bowdirk

[blowdpanis]

I do actually think a paleo-ish diet can wind up quite practical, though. Bill Starr was basically advocating something semi-paleoish back in The Strongest Shall Survive (paleo + dairy, more or less), simply because it's a good way to eat as long as you don't get too OCD about it. Which is why I actually like authors like Robb Wolff who stress the basic idea of the message without getting into nitpicky detail, even if I might disagree with some of their beliefs.

I think the advantage of low carb or carb restricted diets in general is basically that they leave people feeling pretty full while automagically making them eat less, calories-wise. While people use that as a criticism (i.e. they're "just" cutting calories), that's kind of the goal with any diet - to get people to eat less without realizing it, for it to become as painless and automatic as possible. Paleo is simply a step in the right direction by not arbitrarily excluding stuff like fruit, so as long as you're not drinking your own pee or thinking you're going to live to 150, I really don't have an issue with people "going paleo." Like any ideology, things just tend to get obnoxious when people argue in extremes.

[nisora33]

I think the advantage of low carb or carb restricted diets in general is basically that they leave people feeling pretty full while automagically making them eat less, calories-wise. While people use that as a criticism (i.e. they're "just" cutting calories), that's kind of the goal with any diet - to get people to eat less without realizing it, for it to become as painless and automatic as possible.

If it works, I'm fine with it, but I just want people in general and the proponents of the diets in particular to be honest with themselves and other about why they work.

[Tom Campitelli]

What research supports this claim that we haven't adapted to eating grains?

There actually is some stuff out there supporting the idea that we don't react that well to grains, especially those grains that contain gluten (wheat, barley, spelt). Loren Cordain does a lot of work on this topic. Searching Google Scholar for his articles is a decent starting point. Some folks have an immune reaction to gluten (Celiac's disease), some are allergic to it, and some are less than allergic, but could be called sensitive. This is one line of evidence used by those who argue grains are not great for us due to their relatively recent inclusion in our diets. I should also note that some people do just fine with gluten.

Humans are highly adaptable and can run on a wide variety of fuels, although it is probable that some fuels will work a little better than others. The idea that newer foods might cause some low level irritation is not a ridiculous one and some people see genuine improvements upon removing grains from their diets. These improvements are, in some cases, not purely the result of caloric restriction, but can probably be traced to the removal of one or more irritating foods.

Grains are also an easy way to get a lot of calories without getting very full. This is great when you want a lot of calories, but not if you don't. As blowdpanis mentioned, weighing and measuring are not part of a paleo diet, although I am sure you can find people doing so.

[nisora33]

...weighing and measuring are not part of a paleo diet, although I am sure you can find people doing so.

My mistake.

[Chewie_jrc]

I don't know anything about an official Paleo diet, but I thought the basis was very very simple.

Cavemen ate weeds until they could find something to kill and eat. Then they ate more weeds until the could kill something else. Humans evolved for a hella long time on this diet, grains are a 'new' food for us on an evolutionary scale and aren't needed.

So basically my understanding of Paleo is meat and veggies and meat and veggies. Doesn't seem to complex or requiring any degree of obsession.

What am I missing? (simplified)

-Bowdirk

HAHAHA you said hella!!

And yeah paleo diet is pretty easy. Lotsa meet/veggies/nuts (good fats) and some fruit. TOOO EASY!

[bowdirk]

HAHAHA you said hella!!

Okay, Damnit I am 50 years olde, I can say whatever the hella i want!

but, uh, i can't even begin to keep up the kids slang these day, what is wrong with 'hella'? and i don't even want to know wtf a dirty sanchez is!

don't make me bring back 'groovy', 'bitchin'. 'primo', 'Rad' or 'Totally'.

-bowdirk