Eating Through the Sticking Points

[Rob Miller]

Thanks for an interesting read.

There are, of course, different paths to become strong.

Do you have any specifics to add Toni?

Thanks for the good read Matt. There's no doubt in my mind that getting REALLY strong includes large copious amounts of frequent caloric intake. If you got the time and the inclination, sure, be discerning about what that fuel is. But first, make sure the protein and calories are there.

[Mark Rippetoe]

He's talking about the drugs, Rob. Food is cheaper than drugs, and works about 30x better for novice/intermediate lifters.

[solomani]

I've actually been struggling a lot with this myself. I'm at a point where I'm debating with myself whether I want to eat like crazy and gain some weight and strength or keep doing what i've been doing which is dieting, not necessarily out of a vain desire to get a six pack but since i've been quite (and by quite i mean very) chubby since i was about seven years old or so i kind of wanted to know what it felt like living without this massive gut around my waist.

This is my experience.

I started SS about 11 months ago and I was a skinny 78kg but I had this spare tyre around my waist which I hated. When I started SS I ate like a pig (but didnt do GOMAD as I was 38 when I started this at about 18% bodyfat, didnt really need it) and my barbell numbers shot up (though my technique wasn't perfect for many months I still go stronger). I did get fatter but I also looked strong. My weight jumped from 78kg to about 90kg in <3m.

I then discovered I had gluten intolerance which changed my diet substantially. I figured I would use this to trim some weight and try and finally get rid of the spare tyre. So I still ate but didn't closely monitor my protein intake and I am sure my calories dropped. A few things happened - I did thin out slowly dropping to low 80kg (but I never lost the spare tyre which is what I wanted to get rid of) and I slowly regressed in strength.

So about a month a go I started eating like a horse again but this time, because of the gluten intolerance, I eat mostly paleo. My carb intake is relatively low and it all comes from fruits or incidentally from other foods (like nuts, honey etc). I have not gotten fatter and my weight and strength is slowly returning.

My advice is you have to pick one or the other and you cant do both. In retrospect I would not have gone on a diet during my novice phase as it screwed everything up for little benefit on my waistline. If I could do it again I would eat like crazy until I reached my novice max numbers on the deadlift, squat and benchpress and then, only then, start to try and trim the fat. Having said that, if you can afford it, there is nothing wrong with eating 5k calories (or whatever) of healthy food - it doesn't have to be cheeseburgers - but its harder to do. The main reason I found it was harder:

1. Concentrating on high-fat, low-card, moderate-protein (moderate being relative to your training here so 2g every kg of weight or so) will mean you will get full quickly. Fat is both filling and satisfying. You can easily go 4 to 6h without any hunger pains so you have to discipline yourself to eat when not hungry and when full.
2. Carby/wheat based food is easy - generally its heavily processed and ready to eat - not so with the "healthy" way which requires more money and more time and effort in prep time and thinking ahead for meals. Fortunately for me my wife supports me in this and does a great job of "tanking me up" on healthy food.
3. Eliminating grains (the predominate food that makes you fat but also provides cheap calories in your average western diet) eliminates an easy way to stimulate your appetite. Its hard to be truly full on ice-cream as opposed to the same weight in high-fat foods.

So there is my experience and the obstacles i have faced related to diet. To be clear, I consider something like paleo a healthy way to eat so I use the term paleo and healthy interchangably. By healthy I do not mean eatin a ton of fruits or "whole grain" anything. I mean no grains at all, no legumes, high protein, high fat diet. So no cheeseburgers

[Kharvok]

I'm going to get attacked for this. I agree completely with the article. But, it dances completely around the fact that at that level food intake is only nessitated by using. For example i dont eat half of whats mentioned in the article and ive gained 120lbs in the last year and a half, but i am 6'10.

If i am completely off, tell me. Be gentle, this is my first time posting.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I agree completely with the article. But, it dances completely around the fact that at that level food intake is only nessitated by using.

Using what, gentle Kharvok?

[Leeuwer]

I'm going to get attacked for this. I agree completely with the article. But, it dances completely around the fact that at that level food intake is only nessitated by using. For example i dont eat half of whats mentioned in the article and ive gained 120lbs in the last year and a half, but i am 6'10.

If i am completely off, tell me. Be gentle, this is my first time posting.

Don't post much, but I had to reply to this.

I used to train with a powerlifting team, all natural guys.

We had two guys in the -93kg class, one guy in the -120kg class and one guy in the +120 kg class, who weighed 155kgs. I was in the -74kg class when I arrived.

The guy in the -120kg class weighed between 108 and 115kg, depending how much effort he put in his diet. And he put a ton of effort in usually.

He was 1 meter 71 or around 5'7. He was NOT fat. He looked gigantic, but he had no rolls of fat that were easy to grab. The first thing he told me was to eat more because they trained so hard.

Since the competitive scene in Belgium is so small, most of us powerlifters/strongmen/weightlifters/highland gamers know each other. Two brothers I always meet also told me to eat more. They're also 1 meter 71 and weigh 95 and 105kg, respectively. This is the 95kg chap at a powerlifting meet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5nDg8mb48w

Doesn't look fat and is morally COMPLETELY against steroids.

For some reason, the competitive weightlifting and powerlifting scene in my country is, far as we know, quite clean.

These guys increased their weight and strength by forcefeeding and they are very big and strong, bigger than many guys who DO take steroids. You don't NEED the calories, you need to force yourself to get them in.

[Matt Reynolds]

I've actually been struggling a lot with this myself. I'm at a point where I'm debating with myself whether I want to eat like crazy and gain some weight and strength or keep doing what i've been doing which is dieting, not necessarily out of a vain desire to get a six pack but since i've been quite (and by quite i mean very) chubby since i was about seven years old or so i kind of wanted to know what it felt like living without this massive gut around my waist.

My question would be, in regards to eating more for gaining mass and strength, does it really matter if you eat more on the rest days? Would only eating more on days in which i lift be the best way to go about this or do i actually have to try to cram the food in every single day? And for people who've already experimented with tweaking their calories and whatnot, how much food is too much? as in is there a limit to how much more food you can eat to get stronger? is there a point where if you eat more than x amount of calories above the amount of calories you burn where anything above x gives far less strength/muscle gains in comparison to the amount of fat you pack on?

Just remember, that the article wasn't written for guys like you, who have been chronically overfat their entire lives. If you are still 20-30% bodyfat, then you should not be eating as described in the article. Cut down your bodyfat % by cutting your sugar and processed carbs, and eating complex carbs only around training.

And yes, since we grow when we rest, then its important for those who need to eat big, to do so on both training and non training days.

[Pomf]

Just remember, that the article wasn't written for guys like you, who have been chronically overfat their entire lives. If you are still 20-30% bodyfat, then you should not be eating as described in the article. Cut down your bodyfat % by cutting your sugar and processed carbs, and eating complex carbs only around training.

And yes, since we grow when we rest, then its important for those who need to eat big, to do so on both training and non training days.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Matt. I was having this internal struggle inside and now I can rest assured that I am not ruining myself (haha).

however I have been playing around with my calories and whatnot and for me even when i eat ~ 3,000-3,250 calories my gains don't really feel substantially greater. Is this because I am not a "novice"? honestly i've only been lifting for about 3.5 months or so and i'm not all that strong on my lifts. Just to give a little background I've been living off a ~ 1,800 calories a day and although my strength isn't skyrocketing I am gradually and steadily progressing. However even when I do add those extra 1000-1,500 calories the rate of progress does not increase at all. even my recovery doesn't quicken much. Being a poor college student and all I usually subside on Milk, chicken, peanut butter, occasionally rice, and all the vegetables i can scrounge up from time to time. The increase in calories usually come from something like milk. Maybe there isn't much of a difference between 1800 and 3000-3,500 for me? or am i just eating the wrong foods? Thoughts?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I think you are ascribing a level of precision to a process that is multi-factorial and imprecise. Expecting immediate feedback on slightly perturbed variables -- yes, 1,000 calories is actually a slight perturbation -- is unrealistic, because the physiological systems involved in non-metabolic/longer-term processes like tissue growth do not respond significantly within a 24-hour timeframe. And you are talking about moving up from 1800 calories to 2800 or 3300, when we are talking about 5000 calories. I think you're probably a bodybuilder and are not psychologically suited for doing what it takes to get big and strong. As Matt points out, that's fine. Train and eat in a way that makes you happy.

[sking1001]

Follow-up question?

I typically will eat this way from 24 hours out down to the last 6 hours or so before a competition.

Is this after a 24-hour weigh-in? If not, how far below weight are you 24 hours before a competition? I thought I read in your log at one point that you were well below weight for next week's meet, so you could just gain up to the meet. Is that still the case? That would be cool. Of course, I would have to be competitive in the next weight class, but I do pretty well at 181 for now.