Question for Rip - Overtraining?

[kc101]

I looked through some old threads and didn't find anything SPECIFICALLY to this problem..hope you can help.

Hey Mark I've become a big fan of yours after reading SS and the vast amount of knowledge you have. I have a pesky problem that's been bothering me for the last couple years. I'm doing Madcow's Intermediate 5x5 routine. I'm sure you're familiar.

Anyways, my bench has done well on the program but my squat has really suffered. This program was the first time I've ever deadlifted. I've been lifting serious for the last 3 years and didn't initally deadlift when I was a novice. (I'm really wishing I would have started on SS my loss.)

Ever since I started this program my squat has really suffered. My top set 5 rep max was 270x5 now I can only muster 200x5! My squat is actually worse than my bench press right now. You can probably imagine how frustrating and embarassing that is. I know this type of program recommends high calorie intake and I've simply just maintained weight until recently getting serious about bulking.

My hypothesis is the deadlifts and squatting 3x per week on this program have created a toll on my low back I'm struggling to recover from. I stopped deadlifting 3 weeks ago and switched one of the barbell row days to db row to take as much stress off the lower back as possible. I don't think I have a form issue with my squat because my form is no different than when my squat was doing well.

I've read the low back is quickly and easily overtrained. Do I need to stop squatting for a while and let the lower back recover? I've tried deloading my squat, squatting at a higher intensity, etc. nothing seems to give. I'm hoping you can help me out. Thanks Rip

P.S. my stats:
height: 5'11
weight: 166 - in bulk mode currently
age: 22

[Mark Rippetoe]

Continue training, gain 40 pounds, and then resubmit the question.

[kc101]

What if I continue to train myself down till I can only do the barx5 lol

Maybe an idiotic question but: Is my squat low enough now that I've reverted back to novice status and can do sets across for 5 or should I still do the intermediate program and ramp the sets up to a top set of 5?

[tweakxc03]

"bulk mode currently." LOL.

[Milo's Ghost]

Dude, are you just going to post this question on every forum here (and maybe elsewhere?) until somebody tells you your lower back is overtrained and it's ok to stop squatting?

Fine. Your lower back is overtrained. Stop squatting.

You now have permission to do what you're going to do anyway. Go forth.

[kc101]

Maybe the law of common sense has clouded my judgement. If my squat decreases steadily over time maybe sometime isn't right? My form hasn't changed, my weight hasn't changed, the low back is quickly and easily overtrained so...

I don't know if gain 3,000 pounds and see what happens is the answer. Or that my low back has suddenly became weak and there goes my squat KEERR PLUNK. Why would my squat decrease if I added deadlifts to my training, my weight stayed constant, my form stayed constant, and my bench improved. I'm just looking for a more logical answer. Seriously answer that last question. I appreciate the forum help but these answers aren't making sense to me. If anything else give some background to the answers.

Much Thanks, lifer

[spiderman]

Hey Mark I've become a big fan of yours...I'm doing Madcow's Intermediate 5x5 routine. I'm sure you're familiar.

If you are such a fan, then why aren't you doing one of Rip's programs? At your age, weight, and lifts you could be doing the Starting Strength Advanced Novice program with 4,000+ calories per day.

Rip promotes Texas Method as the first intermediate program.

[kc101]

If you are such a fan, then why aren't you doing one of Rip's programs? At your age, weight, and lifts you could be doing the Starting Strength Advanced Novice program with 4,000+ calories per day.

Rip promotes Texas Method as the first intermediate program.

I'm not doing power cleans. Is there a substitute.

[topcraig]

Lifer, you're 22, 5'11", 166, get back to the novice program and start over. Learn how to squat correctly. You say you don't think you have a form problem because it hasn't changed since you were doing well. How's that working for you? Get someone to check your form, post a video. I've read here many times that you shouldn't think about an intermediate program until you're squatting 300 for reps. Gain weight! I am 5'9" and 180 and I am currently eating, like the little pig that I am, to get up to 200. I'm currently lifting three days a week and doing all the lifts adding 5lbs each workout. I do squats and a pull from the floor exercise every workout and my lower back is getting stronger. Oh, by the way, I'm 55. It's the simplest program you'll ever find. Don't complicate it.

[spiderman]

I'm not doing power cleans. Is there a substitute.

Are you trolling? Have you read the book?

You are apparently not a big fan of Rip's advice.