Being weak vs. not fully recovered

[andrewb]

This may not be a useful distinction, but it's something I've been thinking about and I'd love to get some insight from more experienced lifters.

I failed at 190 for squats on Wednesday. I rushed my warm-up and didn't sleep all that well the night before. I completed my sets at 190 today; they weren't beautiful, but they were there. Seems like a very clear-cut case of not being fully covered.

However, what's the difference between not being recovered...and just being too weak? If I got under the bar now and tried to squat 400, I would fail because my muscles aren't strong enough. But if we're talking small incremental growth, is there a way for me to tell as a trainee that I'm fatigued rather than weak? Or, to put it another way, is there a difference?

[ud2o]

I failed at 190 for squats on Wednesday. I rushed my warm-up and didn't sleep all that well the night before. I completed my sets at 190 today; they weren't beautiful, but they were there.

Don't overthink it. You couldn't do it Wednesday. You could do it today. So you can squat 190. You won't be able to squat 195...until you do it. Lots of variables, some days are just better than others.

By the way, you'll get 195 next time. Go for it and report back.

EDIT: I realized there might be more to this story. Was 190 a new high for you or had you previously been able to squat 300? If so, disregard my comments above. If not, I stand by them.

[dbp]

I've heard others echo on here that regressing is a sign of insufficient recovery, where as stalling or being unable to increase weight can simply be due too insufficient stimulus for strength gain.

[boot29342342]

Age, height, weight, how long have you been training, and perhaps a form check or two would all be necessary before anyone can offer an informed opinion that is relevant to your situation. OP.

[andrewb]

Thanks for all the responses. Sorry for not supplying more information, I was thinking more in general terms so I didn't realize my own stats would be relevant.

I'm 28, 5'9", and 165. Been training for 4 months though I started with the bar unnecessarily so I'd say the first month was basically a waste. Current lifts are 190 Squat, 175 Bench, 110 OHP, 245 DL and weighted chins at 30. Bench is slightly out of whack because I used to do dumb-bell bench before SS. My form is okay, I've started meeting with a coach intermittently, though I tend to let myself fall into the hole on squats and sometimes lean forward on the ascent. I hurt myself a little over a month ago jerking the bar on DLs like an ass but I've since remedied that. I also recognize that I'm borderline underweight and have been upping my calories.

[Bryan Dobson]

At this point the distinction is a complexity you don't need to worry about. Just keep adding weight to your body and the bar. If you miss jut eat, rest and try again the next time.

[boot29342342]

Thanks for all the responses. Sorry for not supplying more information, I was thinking more in general terms so I didn't realize my own stats would be relevant.

I'm 28, 5'9", and 165. Been training for 4 months though I started with the bar unnecessarily so I'd say the first month was basically a waste. Current lifts are 190 Squat, 175 Bench, 110 OHP, 245 DL and weighted chins at 30. Bench is slightly out of whack because I used to do dumb-bell bench before SS. My form is okay, I've started meeting with a coach intermittently, though I tend to let myself fall into the hole on squats and sometimes lean forward on the ascent. I hurt myself a little over a month ago jerking the bar on DLs like an ass but I've since remedied that. I also recognize that I'm borderline underweight and have been upping my calories.

Definitely post a form check for your squat--unless your coach knows the Starting Strength model, you're going to get contradictory advice that will set you back.

And yeah, I'd say you're underweight for your height. But the reason I wanted to know your dimensions is that they tend to be relevant to your progress on the linear progression. Once your squat gets to be heavier than your body weight by a certain amount, progress can become more difficult, especially if you are not eating enough. How much did you weigh when you started training?

[andrewb]

Thanks again to all for the advice. I will definitely post a form check, thanks.

I was 160 when I started. I've lost some fat as well, though my waist size is roughly the same. If it matters, I don't look frail or underweight. My weight also bounces around a lot (even when I weigh at the same time of day) so I'm not sure how much those 5 pounds matter. My muscles, particularly in my legs, are definitely bigger, all of my pants fit tighter now.

Squats have been an issue for me since the beginning. I remember failing at 105. I've had a good run from 145 until now though.

[John Hanley]

Weakness in a loaded movement is a discrepancy between one's maximal force potential for the movement and the mass of the load in the loaded movement. Fatigue is a discrepancy between max force potential and actual force production (ie somethings f'ing up your recruitment of motor units).

Subjectively, you should feel the difference in warm-up sets. Bar speed on warm-up reps is how I determine fatigue status for advanced lifters (for whom margins of error in load selection are VERY small).