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  1. #11
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    • wichita falls texas march seminar date
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    Quote Originally Posted by wal View Post
    Talking to some old folk a few days ago who a residents of a retirement village told me that falls are one of the greatest hazards as folk age, more so as weakness sets in. The remedy to counter act this propensity to fall that was suggested to them was learning how to fall safely. This seems to me rather stupid when the benefits of strength straining can cause a resistance to fall and if a fall does happen the body is better protected.
    While I agree that getting them stronger is more important and comes first as a preventative, everyone could benefit from learning to fall so as not to break a wrist, arm, hip, or injure the head.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    YMMV is usually interpreted as Your Mileage May Vary, and is an abbreviated disclaimer that the aforegoing may not generalize to your situation.
    With regard to warmups, If I have shorted the warmup relative to what I need I find the second work set significantly easier than the first. I would suggest if this happens to you often you need more warmup sets.
    Philbert, thanks for the tidbit on finding the second work set easier than the first. That's pretty regular with my squats. I will do more warm up sets before squatting and see if that helps. I appreciate your help!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    While I agree that getting them stronger is more important and comes first as a preventative, everyone could benefit from learning to fall so as not to break a wrist, arm, hip, or injure the head.
    And precisely how do we teach 89-year-olds to fall correctly without hurting them when they do it incorrectly the first time? Pretty silly, Hurling.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And precisely how do we teach an 89-year-old to fall correctly without hurting them when they do it incorrectly the first time? Pretty silly, Hurling.
    I see an enormous market for 'elderly friendly' floor coverings in much the same way as children's playgrounds have been nannyfied to the point of being hopeless as an aid to learning about the perils of gravity.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And precisely how do we teach 89-year-olds to fall correctly without hurting them when they do it incorrectly the first time? Pretty silly, Hurling.
    Well. Since you did ask so politely:

    HOW TO FALL


    There are four basic falls to get good at. I’m just going to stick to the basics here, because there are really several more, but these four will take care of what you need and they are not that difficult to learn.

    Back Falls
    In this fall, you learn to fall over on your back. This type of fall can happen if your heel slips, you are pushed from in the chest from the front, or if one of your legs is tripped from in front. You can crack the back of your head as you hit the ground and I can guarantee you that particular impact will do nothing to help keep your head clear when you are attacked.

    The way to assure that you will not be hurt from falling backward is to learn to tuck in your chin and round your back so you dissipate the force of your fall by rolling. Your own bodyweight will bring you safely back to some form of stability. I did not say painlessly, but you will avoid the worst kind of potential injuries from learning this and the other types of falls covered here. Your butt might be a little sore, your hands and maybe forearms will definitely sting at least a little, unless you fall on grass, but you are unlikely to break something or get knocked out.

    Lying

    To start, you begin by lying on your back with your knees bent and the soles of your feet on the ground. Your chin should be tucked up firmly on your chest, and your hands should be crossed over your chest. Begin by slapping your hands backwards to the floor. Practice this at first on a gym mat or rug, a wood or linoleum floor will really sting. Your hands should slap the mat with your palms down and be angled out 450 from your body. Do not let them slap at a 900 angle; this can hurt your shoulders. Remember to keep your chin tucked in and not get careless and let your head hit the floor. Your neck muscles must be strong enough to hold your head forward, or you will bang it for certain. When you slap, bring your hands and arms up again immediately, even faster than you slapped. This helps prevent some of the sting. Do this at least 5 – 10 times to get the feel of the movement.

    Sitting

    Once you are confident you have this down pat, sit up. By sitting up, I mean you should be in the position you would be at the top of doing a sit up. Your knees are bent, your feet are flat on the floor, and you are sitting on your butt rather than lying on your back as you were earlier. Your hands should, once again, be crossed over your chest and your chin tucked on your chest. Your upper and lower back should be rounded so that your elbows, if not actually touching your knees, should be fairly close to them.

    Roll back, keeping your chin tucked and slap the mat at about the same time your shoulder blades hit the mat. Don’t slap too soon, because if you do, it means you are reaching back with your hands. This can result in a broken wrist and you don’t want that. As you roll back, let your feet come up in the air as your back gets closer to the mat. This is important to remember to do, because it sets up a pattern of movement for the next phases of learning this fall. Letting your feet fly up in the air helps to dissipate the energy of your body falling backward and actually slows you down a little before your back actually makes contact with the mat. If you do forget to keep your chin tucked in, you will get a fair bump to back of your head. Forgetting this will serve as a good reminder as to why keeping it tucked is important.

    Let your feet come down on the mat again, sit up to prepare for the next fall, and bring your hands back off the mat quickly. Do this at least 5 – 10 times. Be sure you have this down before moving to the next phase.

    Squatting

    Squat down on the mat with your feet flat and your heels down if you can. If you can’t squat flat footed, think about stretching your Achilles tendon and hamstrings. Don’t let it stop you from proceeding, though. As before, you want keep your chin tucked in and your hands crossed on your chest. You might need to lean forward to keep your balance so you don’t fall backwards until you are ready to.

    Shift your weight backward toward your heels and keep your upper and lower back rounded. Try to make contact with the mat with your butt as close to your heels as possible. This helps your back to stay rounded and you are less likely to land flat on your back. A flat back landing can result in having the wind knocked out of you or creating enough of a shock to cause your head to snap back and hit the mat. Neither of these is desirable. Bring your arms back and slap the mat with the same timing described in the lying phase, with your palms hitting the mat at same time as your shoulder blades.

    Let your feet fly up in the air and keep your legs as relaxed as you can. Stiffening them up and not letting your knees bend does not help in slowing you down. In general, you must try to relax as much as you can while doing this because tightening up your muscles will only make it more likely that you could get injured as you hit the mat. Bring your hands back up across your chest quickly after slapping the mat and keep your back rounded to assist you in rolling forward.

    Bend your knees at the same time to assist in the roll forward and get your heels in as close to your buttocks as you can. This will make it easier to get back into the squatting position for the next back fall. Do this as many times as it takes to get comfortable and confident in this because it is important to be ready for the next phase.

    Standing

    This is the last phase and it can be scary, so if you’re nervous, once again relax as much as you can. This is especially important for the muscles around your mid-section, both the abdominals in the front, and the mid and lower back in the rear. This may sound too repetitious, but keep your chin on your chest or you may see stars!

    Stand up with your arms crossed on your chest and your knees slightly bent. Let your weight rock back on your heels and fold yourself forward a little at about the line of your navel. Let your knees bend to about a 450 angle or more and let yourself go to your rear and keep the back rounded. The closer you can keep your heels to your buttocks, especially the first few times you do this, the better. As you gain skill and confidence in your ability to fall without injury, this becomes less important, but it should always be on your mind as you fall.

    Your buttocks or lower back should make contact with the mat first, followed by the rest of your back in a smooth rolling motion. If you find that you feel a shock wave about the point where your lower and middle back meet, this means you have either not relaxed enough or you did not bend your knees enough. It can feel like doing a reverse belly flop and can knock the wind out of you. Slap your arms backward as you continue your roll and bring them back up immediately.

    You will probably need your hands and arms to assist you in standing up again, so don’t try to cross them on your chest right away. Stand up again to get ready for the next back fall. Let your knees bend a lot as you first learn this. It gets you lower toward the mat and the fall is less hard and less intimidating. As you gain skill you can let your knees bend less, but don’t try this at first.

    I learned this at age 18 when I first took Judo as a PE course in college. I taught it to newbies in Judo and a few decades later in Jujitsu. These are learned on a mat, varying in thickness from 1"-3" and usually in a group setting of several students. This is only a back fall, both side falls, and front falls would be taught. Rolling forward falls, would not really be applicable to this population.

    For an at risk population like the elderly, I would use a thicker mat or landing pad such as is used for dismounts in gymnastics. These are like mattresses and actually pleasant to fall on. At each stage, a geezer learning to fall would be observed one on one at each stage of lying, squatting, etc. Any deviations from form would immediately corrected. Especially failure to keep the chin tucked on to the chest. For obvious reasons the learner would not be expected to perform a live fall on grass, tile, or concrete. Despite that, the learner may still get injured, just not potentially as badly as if they had not learned to do fall more safely.

    All of this is predicated on a learner being already strong enough to better maintain balance and keep their chin tucked on their chest. Hence my earlier prioritization of strength first and falling safely second.

    Still sound silly?

  6. #16
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    No. Now it's just stupid. How many 89-year-olds have to taught this way?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    While I agree that getting them stronger is more important and comes first as a preventative, everyone could benefit from learning to fall so as not to break a wrist, arm, hip, or injure the head.
    Old folk falls happen spontaneously and I don't not think they could react quick enough to know how to tumble. When your gyro does not work properly because you sit or lie down most of the day and you get up suddenly you have what we call down here "chuck a wobbly" and down you go. That is why old folk homes who do not have some form of strength training save the high cost of falls by keeping the inmates sedated or playing card games.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    I see an enormous market for 'elderly friendly' floor coverings in much the same way as children's playgrounds have been nannyfied to the point of being hopeless as an aid to learning about the perils of gravity.
    They do have big friendly soft couches that are hard to get out of so they sleep instead of moving and a nip of Gin after meals.

  9. #19
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    My mother is in a nursing home. I can assure you that it would be impossible to teach this segment of the population how to fall properly.
    And based on the low margins of operating a nursing home, there is little incentive to purchase special flooring that is cushioned. It wont clean well either. And the med carts and food tray carts need tile to move around the corridor and rooms.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    I think you may have left a key word out of your response or perhaps used the wrong one. So it's difficult to cipher out the meaning of your latest erudition.

    Nonetheless, it's a rather odd pose to strike for someone who professes to be such a vigorous advocate for keeping the elderly healthy. Carry on.

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