Why ever train beltless?

[Tom Campitelli]

I am not familiar with the increased muscle activation point, unless you only mean that by virtue of a belt enabling higher weights. What is the argument there? I had always heard the opposite - it helps stabilize the core, therefore the core does not work as hard, therefore the core is not as strong. Sort of like lifting straps and deadlifts with regard to grip strength, but obviously less extreme, the primary benefit of both being that they enable higher weights.

This is a common misconception. Try using a belt and let me know how your abs feel afterward. Did they do less work? Also relevant:

https://www.t-nation.com/training/th...d-the-deadlift

[Tom Campitelli]

I only wear a belt when I attempting maximal weights....I've always trained in a way that allows my core to get stronger as I get stronger in lifts like squats and deads....IMO the belt is over used...I seen guys using the belt too earlier in the strength development which does not allow their torso to get strong...it becomes a crutch....just my opinion

What happens to your unbelted squat as your belted squat increases?

[Clay Simczyk]

I am not familiar with the increased muscle activation point, unless you only mean that by virtue of a belt enabling higher weights. What is the argument there? I had always heard the opposite - it helps stabilize the core, therefore the core does not work as hard, therefore the core is not as strong. Sort of like lifting straps and deadlifts with regard to grip strength, but obviously less extreme, the primary benefit of both being that they enable higher weights.

No. No. No. No. A belt isn't the same as straps. Not even close. Straps replace your grip. A belt is an assistant. I had a a shit back and wore a belt for everything. Now I can squat 365 as a beltless warmup. You'll never be able to deadlift 365 with your hands if you use straps for everything. But more importantly, love the user name. I always wanted to be an architect.

[lou t]

What happens to your unbelted squat as your belted squat increases?

Tom....sorry but I would like to answer your question but not sure what you mean by what happens to my unbelted squats? I don't want to miss interrupt the question.

[Meshuggah]

The better question is... why would anyone always want to train with a belt?

[Bryan Dobson]

I like belt less squats as a training variation while accumulating volume. I have a good handle on how to get a lot out of a belt. But I also can get a significant training stimulus by squatting without the belt. It forces me to slow down and control the bar path more precisely, it also simulates max effort bar speeds at lower weight, this is an advantage to me.
It also increases the benefit I get from the belt when I put it on because not only is my bar path precise, I can then get aggressive with much more confidence using that belt.
Belt less heavy work is not for beginners. It requires judgment and skill and if the motor patterns and mind body connection are not good for the movement, it would be easy to get hurt.

[Tom Campitelli]

Tom....sorry but I would like to answer your question but not sure what you mean by what happens to my unbelted squats? I don't want to miss interrupt the question.

Let's say you put on a belt when your work sets get to 300 pounds. You train for time and your work sets get to 405 pounds, albeit with a belt. Will your unbelted squats remain at the same weight, go up, or go down?

[Tom Campitelli]

The better question is... why would anyone always want to train with a belt?

Because they want to do so, or because a history of back injuries makes it a prudent choice.

[artvandalay]

No. No. No. No. A belt isn't the same as straps. Not even close. Straps replace your grip. A belt is an assistant. I had a a shit back and wore a belt for everything. Now I can squat 365 as a beltless warmup. You'll never be able to deadlift 365 with your hands if you use straps for everything. But more importantly, love the user name. I always wanted to be an architect.

Haha, thanks. Art Vandelay was also an "importer-exporter."

Agreed re straps -- I don't ever use them (although I'm not against it in special situations). And I did note in my response that the straps example was more extreme, so I'm with you there. My point is, if a thing makes a movement easier, and you get used to the easier movement, then you may not be able to do the movement without that thing. I realize that may be a misconception. I don't ever use a belt but have been considering it and am soaking in the dialogue here. I'll give that t-nation article a read as well.

[VNV]

... if a thing makes a movement easier, and you get used to the easier movement, then you may not be able to do the movement without that thing. ...

I thought similarly; but, respectfully, it doesn't matter. I wanted to hit a 315 lb squat beltless, when the mid 200's were a challenge. Then in a form check, Mac Ward advised me to belt-up. I did, and now my 5x5 volume days are at a confident ~ 285 lbs, and 5RMs are about 325 lbs. I no longer care about the supposed "ease" the belt provides. Likely I will wear the belt forever. My goal is to add more weight to the bar. As for "ease", my muscles feel more worked now than they've ever been. And I've never been more free of injuries.

(Straps are another matter, which completely eliminate grip work, as you wrote in other words.)

Vince