Am i too strong for Novice phase

[Wouter Hendrickx]

Hello Mark,

Im 20 years old weighing 160lbs and on my first meet two months ago i did 405 squat, 250 bench and 415 deadlift. I've been messing around in the gym since i was 14 and really only started focussing on heavy compounds once i turned 17. It took me 3 years to get to those numbers, which is obviously too long. I trained without a real program or structure until i started reading Starting Strength and PP last year. I decided to do Texas Method because my lifts are not Novice numbers. In fact, at my age and weight, my lifts are in the advanced charts, even coming close to elite.

Now the problem is that i feel i became too "addicted" to fluff and pump work and it's hard for me, mentally, to let go of certain exercises and really focus on whats important. Since i completely fucked up my novice phase, i never really got to do a good novice program such as SS. So i've been thinking of hopping on SS right now so i can start from scratch with no accessories whatsoever and see from there if and where and which accessories i NEED to put in my program. Do you think that is a good idea for me? From what i remember from the book, your run SS untill you have had to reset 2 times and once you reach the 3th time it's time to progress to more intermediate training like Texas Method. I guess it wouldnt hurt me to start doing SS, the worst thing that can happen is that i can only last a month or so but then at least i will know for certain that i cant make gains anymore on a Novice program. Let me know what you think.

[autumnal]

Have you read the book? It makes it abundantly clear that the novice phase is defined by recovery ability. It really has nothing to do with an absolute number of weights.

If you're going to do SS, I would recommend actually doing that program. Accessory work is largely an intermediate programming task. I find that Rip's teachings work best when they're followed to the letter. If you want to do SS, do that. If you want to do one of the intermediate programs, do that. But mixing and matching is a recipe for disaster.

As Rip said in a clarification, "It has come to my attention that many of you aren't doing the program, and then are bitching about the results of the program." Not saying you are complaining at all, but the quote says something about how few people are actually doing the program as written.

[Wouter Hendrickx]

Have you read the book? It makes it abundantly clear that the novice phase is defined by recovery ability. It really has nothing to do with an absolute number of weights.

If you're going to do SS, I would recommend actually doing that program. Accessory work is largely an intermediate programming task. I find that Rip's teachings work best when they're followed to the letter. If you want to do SS, do that. If you want to do one of the intermediate programs, do that. But mixing and matching is a recipe for disaster.

As Rip said in a clarification, "It has come to my attention that many of you aren't doing the program, and then are bitching about the results of the program." Not saying you are complaining at all, but the quote says something about how few people are actually doing the program as written.

I never said i want to combine SS with accessories. Like many, i didn't know anything about training when i started so i never really got to do a Novice program. And I know that training level is defined by recovery level. I just don't think that with my stats i'm going to be able to run a novice phase for long time. So from one side i want to do SS because its super basic and i would run it without accessories, but on the hand i doubt i will be able to add weight multiple times per week to my lifts.

Also, if i start SS. The volume will be noticably lower than when i was doing all the accessories. Do you think this drop in volume will cause less hypertrophy, despite the fact that i would add weight to my lifts more frequently?

[Charlie Davies]

As you are squatting 405 at 160 lbs bodyweight, and currently doing much more volume that SSLP specifies, I suspect you are correct -- your SSLP run will be very short unless you gain a lot of weight, and maybe even then.

I'm not qualified to give you programming advice.

Try the "Starting Strength Staff Coaches Q&A" forum, or Andy Baker's Programming forum.
Note that these are moderated forums and your post will sit in a queue for a few days before someone pulls it and answers it.

[Dalton Clark]

I would run an LP but the rationale is a bit different. The only way to know whether you are a novice or not is to try to be one again. In other words, to see if you can recover within 48 hours. You will start much higher than someone who is just starting out, but I would still follow the program. Worst case scenario you spend a month or two and realize that you are no longer a novice. Best case scenario, you realize that you can still gain 50 pounds or more on your squat and deadlift in a small amount of time. Nobody can really ascertain whether you are or aren't a novice based purely off of numbers, but odds are that you are an advanced novice/intermediate depending on how good/shitty your genes are.

[scwot]

i doubt i will be able to add weight multiple times per week to my lifts.

There's your answer. You're not a novice, according to Rip, therefore SS isn't the right program for you.

[Brodie Butland]

I guess it wouldnt hurt me to start doing SS, the worst thing that can happen is that i can only last a month or so but then at least i will know for certain that i cant make gains anymore on a Novice program. Let me know what you think.

I would start with this. At a 405 max squat, I'm guessing your 3 sets of 5 reps for the squat is somewhere in the low-mid 300s. You may very well still be able to milk some linear progression out of that...depends on your genes, really.

I would strongly consider beginning with the advanced novice template, though, rather than the full novice template. You clearly have a good foundation already, and I think programming as if you haven't been lifting over the past few years is a recipe for unnecessary early stalls.

[Satch12879]

There's your answer. You're not a novice, according to Rip, therefore SS isn't the right program for you.

He does not know if he can or not, thus the qualifier "I doubt if I could...", because he has never done so.