A conditioning question

[JohnW]

It has been my experience that conditioning does not transfer particularly well between modalities.
If this is a valid general observation (and it may not be) why is this so?.
There is a central component to lactate metabolism via the Cori Cycle and the enzymatic cascades in myocytes during glycolysis and Kreb's Cycle/electron transport are presumably the same.
I'm sure that many of the benefits of HIIT in the untrained are as a result of getting stronger but for those of us that do train I'm not convinced there are huge benefits outside of sport specific practice.

[B-MoreBeast]

Just wanted to chime in and say thank you for the mention of glycosis and the Kreb's cycle. I need to get back to my biology homework.

[Keith Norman]

It depends to be honest. The adaptations that take place during the novice lp in effect improve the efficiency of the metabolic mechanisms and cardiovascular system, but depending on the sport of the intermediate trainee conditioning could or could not be important. As a general rule, High intensity, anaerobic/glycolytic work carries over to aerobic capacity as well and benefits most sports. For example, an intermediate power lifter conditioning isn't necessary especially on a program such as the Texas method since you are getting conditioning within the context of the sport by squatting, pressing, and pulling all in the same workout, but a football player would need conditioning since strength training falls more into the GPP category for them.

[Matt Reynolds]

When you say "modalities" do you mean in the conditioning/energy system spectrum? Or do you mean different type movements - i.e. - prowler work doesn't transfer over well to C2 rower? or do you mean it doesn't transfer over to other physical skills?

Remember that intense (HIIT) glycolytic work maxes out the stored ATP/CP system, the oxidative system, AND the glycolytic system. So, in the most simplest way, we believe this type of training is best because it causes all 3 to become more efficient.

Clarify the question and I'll see if we can give you a better answer.

Matt

[JohnW]

Apologies Matt. That wasn't clear.
I mean I don't perceive a huge transfer between different movement types. Specifically from the C2.
Firstly, I don't think there's no benefit.
Secondly, I may not do enough conditioning to significantly improve on what I get from squats/deadlifts. 20s/1:40 rest at average 560W. Max pull about 650W.
In essence I'm questioning whether, when I condition regularly on the C2, I'm largely improving my skill at rowing.

Thanks,
John

[JohnW]

As a general rule, High intensity, anaerobic/glycolytic work carries over to aerobic capacity as well and benefits most sports.

Thanks,
I may not do enough for the additional benefit. I know the theory but my practice may be incorrect.
I essentially do enough to maintain the C2 times I outlined above in my reply to Matt. I simply find that when I only squat/deadlift or even just deadlift (as I did for 18 months due to hip pain) without additional conditioning I can't tell much of a difference.
My deadlift is around the 180kg x 5 area. I'm a general strength trainee in that I train to have fun doing other things. 44 years old. 90kg.

[Keith Norman]

Since you are a "general strength trainee" you don't really need to do conditioning work if you don't want to or have time to. From a health stand point it will benefit you in other ways such as lowering you blood pressure, resting pulse, etc. Other than the health benefits of it I'm not really qualified to comment further.

[John Hanley]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I think 20 second sprints on a C2 do not provide nearly enough work...for even the sprintiest of folks.

I, personally, cannot physically work hard enough doing 20 second sprints & I'm pretty good at turning on motor units quickly. Nothing's getting taxed really. I suppose I'm inducing an adaptation to RPE5-6 sprints. So theoretically, I would imagine I'd be better at RPE5-6 sprints of different modalities. Whoo-hooo.

Edit: I certainly think there's transfer between activities that tax similar bio-energetic systems. The transfer will be highest for modalities at comparable skill levels.

[JohnW]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I think 20 second sprints on a C2 do not provide nearly enough work...for even the sprintiest of folks.

Yes, I've seen you write that before. I should take more notice!. I'm definitely not the sprintiest of folks.
What I'd really like is more transfer to surfboard paddling so I'm going to try longer intervals with less recovery. Maybe some 1:2 or 1:1 ratio stuff with 30s-40s working times. Even Tabata. It might stuff the lifting a little.

[John Hanley]

What I'd really like is more transfer to surfboard paddling

What fatigues when you do this? Front delts? Back? Or just a general full-system fatigue?

There are certainly "local" muscle-group specific, enzymatic adaptations [hand wave] for any given movement. I would think swimming would transfer pretty well to surfboard paddling. Or intense rounds on a boxing speed bag