DL form check continued

[VNV]

Steve did the last form check here:

DL form check please ---
http://startingstrength.com/resource...ck-please.html

With Steve's advice, backing off the bar, I Just now hit 5 reps with the same weight.

I didn't have someone to hold the camera, so I put the tripod in next best location, to the side I thought.

I notice lumbar flexion. And some searching for the correct starting position, which once obtained, made the reps possible.

Does it look like I'm squeezing the weight off the floor?

VNV - Starting Strength Forums(1771230) on Vimeo

(Sorry about the audibles.)

[Steve Hill]

Squeezing the Bar Off the Floor | Niki Sims

[VNV]

Thanks man. I can feel the love from here.

I'll figure it out!

[Steve Hill]

Thanks man. I can feel the love from here.

I'll figure it out!

If I was holding up, let's say, and 25# weight, and was handing it too you, what happens when I'm holding all the weight, you put your hands on the weight, and I let go of the weight?

[VNV]

If I was holding up, let's say, and 25# weight, and was handing it too you, what happens when I'm holding all the weight, you put your hands on the weight, and I let go of the weight?

I would feel all of the weight as soon as you let it go.

Since you are the un-nice Tom C. and an engineer, this could be an advanced admonition or insult, which I would miss because I am often naive, gullible, and/or dense.

So I shall blithely proceed to employ this mental exercise to fix my physical problem.

This imagery could be employed as a cue for setup. As I think Ms. Sims and Associate said, slack should come out of the bar and my feet feel heavy, similar to the transfer of the 25# load.

Tangentially: between reps, the bar rarely lands in the correct position for the next pull. Do you recommend moving (rolling) the bar, or my feet, to obtain correct distance? I've seen people roll the bar to fix the distance, which seems more predictable. (Unfortunately, the bar doesn't like to stay put on my mats, which are not smooth.)

Vince

[Steve Hill]

I would feel all of the weight as soon as you let it go.

Since you are the un-nice Tom C. and an engineer, this could be an advanced admonition or insult, which I would miss because I am often naive, gullible, and/or dense.

So I shall blithely proceed to employ this mental exercise to fix my physical problem.

This imagery could be employed as a cue for setup. As I think Ms. Sims and Associate said, slack should come out of the bar and my feet feel heavy, similar to the transfer of the 25# load.

Tangentially: between reps, the bar rarely lands in the correct position for the next pull. Do you recommend moving (rolling) the bar, or my feet, to obtain correct distance? I've seen people roll the bar to fix the distance, which seems more predictable. (Unfortunately, the bar doesn't like to stay put on my mats, which are not smooth.)

Vince

Let's say you had braced yourself with your hand still, and all the muscles necessary to support the weight in isometric contraction. Would your hand move as the weight came into it?

[VNV]

Let's say you had braced yourself with your hand still, and all the muscles necessary to support the weight in isometric contraction. Would your hand move as the weight came into it?

Shoot, doing problems at the chalkboard in front of everyone . . .

Theoretically, no movement. But practically, there's usually a small dip as I adjust to holding the heavier weights. I suppose that is eliminated with complete "isometric contraction".

[Steve Hill]

Shoot, doing problems at the chalkboard in front of everyone . . .

Theoretically, no movement. But practically, there's usually a small dip as I adjust to holding the heavier weights. I suppose that is eliminated with complete "isometric contraction".

Theoreticaly? I suggest you check your theory.

IF your hand is not moving, that means that the forces that would move your hand (forces generated by gravity and muscular action) are balanced). If I introduce an ADDITIONAL force into that equation (a 25# weight) then your muscles would need to generate an ADDITIONAL 25# of force upward to stop the weight from moving. Now, what if there was no 25# weight? What would happen to your hand if you just gerenated 25# of upward force with no weight in your hand? You hand would accelerate upward. But we already stated your hand wasn't moving. So that force is not being generated because if it were, your hand would move - I'm still holding the weight. Now, once the weight is held in your hand, downward motion is going to occur UNTIL YOU GENERATE 25# of upward force.

DO you think this happens instantaneously? All those muscle fibers turn on instantly to prevent the weight from moving? OF COURSE YOU DON'T - you already said there would be a dip.

So knowing all this - how the hell can you keep your back flat if you don't pull the slack out of the bar via the mechanism OF USING THE SPINAL ERECTORS TO DO SO? Because if you don't do that, then the force being generated by the spinal erectors is ONLY that needed to maintain stasis - no motion - and NOT the force necessary to hold the back flat under stasis + whatever's on the bar.

[VNV]

[ . . . crud, erase the embarrassment . . . ]

So knowing all this - how the hell can you keep your back flat if you don't pull the slack out of the bar via the mechanism OF USING THE SPINAL ERECTORS TO DO SO? Because if you don't do that, then the force being generated by the spinal erectors is ONLY that needed to maintain stasis - no motion - and NOT the force necessary to hold the back flat under stasis + whatever's on the bar.

My knowledge was not explicit, and my mental model was deficient (facts but no picture). Indeed, all I thought about was the force needed to maintain stasis.

I don't recall ever hearing it put quite this way, of initially loading the spinal erectors with sum of the forces for stasis and for the bar[*]. This makes eminent sense.

Vince

[*] "Pulling the slack out of the bar" can stand for this, but I didn't get it right. I took that as something to do with the (straight) arms. I suppose loading of the erectors /should/ naturally follow.

[Steve Hill]

Circling back around to your original post / video in this thread, and Niki's article, note the difference in the amount of noise made at the start of the two lifts. In Nik's video, there's no noise because all of the load from the plates + slop in the bar is being taken up by the hands / arms as an artifact of the lifter having squeezed their chest up, or, as we say it, the slack having been pulled out of the bar.