Question about Grinders during novice LP - Bench press

[gv3055]

43 y.o. male
Weigh 98 kg
Novice LP for the past 5-6 weeks, 5x5 etc. before that.
Starting body weight about 93 kg
Increment so far on the bench: 2.5 kg (5 lb)
Caloric intake: way too many (hey, I'm freaking hungry, 200-250g protein intake daily)
Amount of rest between sets (work sets): 3- 5 minutes
Sleep: 8-10 hours
Stress: job stress, but the early morning workouts help immensely

1 relevant thing before I ask my question - I have actually been doing the close-hand bench press so far for my LP because I am prone to hurt my shoulders with bench pressing with the wider grip. I hope this was not a critical error.

I had a session the other day whereby I was bench pressing 92.5 kg on 12 January, following my usual 2.5 kg jumps. The effort has become much harder the past couple weeks as the weight goes up (duh).
Anyway, my question is about grinders, form breakdown and what to do about it.

Set 1: felt very heavy: at this point I knew it was going to be a tough day. Nailed all 5 reps with halfway decent form, though. Rest 4 minutes.

Set 2: Reps 4 and 5 were heavy as heck. Rep 4 partial grinder. Rep 5 could have landed on my chest, but I stuck with it and got the rep completed. 5 minutes rest. (Question 1: should my session have ended here?)

Set 3: Rep 4 sucked ass, so I did Rep 5 easily (but only because I bounced it off my chest).

So my question is what would be the best next move in terms of maximizing LP? I have bench tomorrow again.

Do I:

1) drop the weight about 10 kg, and start doing slight pause at the bottom like I prefer to do in the name of good form and strength building. Build back up 2.5 kg at a time.

2) keep the weight the same and see if it goes better.
2a) add 1 kg and see if it goes better.

3) move the hands out, which I think will allow me to add 2.5 kg but might risk shoulder pain.

4) say screw it and add 2.5 kg and just see how it goes.

Thanks,

[Michael Wolf]

Whoa, buddy.

Start here: The First Three Questions | Mark Rippetoe

You should rest more between sets, and probably should have started 1kg jumps a few bench workouts ago. So start doing those things now.

If you have shoulder issues, a closer grip may be a good idea on a permanent basis; that's case by case and I can't say more from here, not without a video and maybe even not with a video.

A regular bench press during the LP is a light touch-n-go, not paused. Paused bench comes later, when you're prepping for a meet or as a variation when you're deeper into intermediate training.

Grinding through hard reps is part of LP. You're supposed to do it, it's part of how you know when to re-set, or when the LP is actually over.

[gv3055]

Thanks Michael,

this morning went pretty well...

I just made the following changes, as you suggested:

only added 1 kg, so benched 3x5 @ 93.5 kg.
waited about 6 minutes between sets
didn't Focus so much on the pause at the bottom, but didn't go to the other extreme and bounce it off my chest either
(kept at Close grip for now)

and I had at least 2 reps in the tank after the 3rd set!
So I will just stick with the 1 kg jumps for a while, God willing.

Thanks again for sharing your expertise with me!

[Michael Wolf]

Sounds good man, keep it up.

[tfranc]

Sorry for posting all over the place on here recently, but this thread made me think of another one that you did, Wolf, where you talked about how hard reps should be grade B in terms of quality. Please correct me if I’m wrong - grade A is like you’re doing everything right, weight isn’t too heavy, B is you’re pushed out of position just a bit here and there, but overall your technique is correct. You should have to keep a conscious tab on your cues with a B but be mostly successful at following those cues. As long as your B’s at x amount of weight keep turning into A’s later on, you should keep adding weight to the bar. When your grinders look like C’s and D’s you can call those failed reps perhaps.

[Michael Wolf]

Sorry for posting all over the place on here recently, but this thread made me think of another one that you did, Wolf, where you talked about how hard reps should be grade B in terms of quality. Please correct me if I’m wrong - grade A is like you’re doing everything right, weight isn’t too heavy, B is you’re pushed out of position just a bit here and there, but overall your technique is correct. You should have to keep a conscious tab on your cues with a B but be mostly successful at following those cues. As long as your B’s at x amount of weight keep turning into A’s later on, you should keep adding weight to the bar. When your grinders look like C’s and D’s you can call those failed reps perhaps.

You're referring to this thread: Form vs. Increasing Weight

That's basically right, tfranc, except the end. This may just be semantics, but I wouldn't called them failed reps, because you completed the rep, showing you're strong enough to do them. But I would call them reps that are too deviant from the ideal model which you're trying to replicate every time, and which, over time, lead to a higher risk of injury and less than ideal recruitment of the right muscles that make you stronger. So you don't keep adding weight when your completed reps are of that poor quality.

[tfranc]

You're referring to this thread: Form vs. Increasing Weight

That's basically right, tfranc, except the end. This may just be semantics, but I wouldn't called them failed reps, because you completed the rep, showing you're strong enough to do them. But I would call them reps that are too deviant from the ideal model which you're trying to replicate every time, and which, over time, lead to a higher risk of injury and less than ideal recruitment of the right muscles that make you stronger. So you don't keep adding weight when your completed reps are of that poor quality.

Oh, ok. But you would essentially do the same thing programming-wise, right? Keep the weight the same and repeat the workout until you get it or deem its time for a change.

[Michael Wolf]

Depends on the circumstances, but essentially yes. You just can't use this as an excuse to be in perpetual LP but never actually making progress, constantly doing re-sets because you missed one rep or did one workout with bad form.