Front Squats Superior to Back Squats?(As long as your doing deadlifts)

[Bobby32]

Hello Mr Rippetoe. Now I must say I like back squats more than front squats, so I’m not some front squat fanboy who is saying their better because I like them more. The reason I think their better though is because when you front squat, you are putting your legs and hips through a longer range of motion than the back squat. Since we know that if range of motion is the reason the weight is reduced, it will be better for strength. For example, a wide grip bench isn’t as effective for building strength as a closer grip bench. Agreed? Since we can keep a nuertral spine going ATG in a front squat, how is it not better than the back squat for quad and glute strength. Now I know what you’re thinking, “What about the hamstring and low back?” Yes there is little to no hamstring and low back involvement in the front squat, but guess what works those? The deadlift. The deadlift works them more effectively than the back squat beucase it is the heaviest load we can expose our lower back to, and hamstrings act isometrically AND concentrically, as supposed to just isometrically in the back squat. So since we know that deadlift will cover our low back and hamstring strength, why limit our quad and glute strength(mainly quad strength beucase the deadlift works the glutes too) by back squatting? Even Bill Starr said in one of his articles that front squats are the greatest test of pure hip and leg strength. Thank you for your time and free service.

[Will Morris]

Hello Mr Rippetoe. Now I must say I like back squats more than front squats, so I’m not some front squat fanboy who is saying their better because I like them more. The reason I think their better though is because when you front squat, you are putting your legs and hips through a longer range of motion than the back squat. Since we know that if range of motion is the reason the weight is reduced, it will be better for strength. For example, a wide grip bench isn’t as effective for building strength as a closer grip bench. Agreed? Since we can keep a nuertral spine going ATG in a front squat, how is it not better than the back squat for quad and glute strength. Now I know what you’re thinking, “What about the hamstring and low back?” Yes there is little to no hamstring and low back involvement in the front squat, but guess what works those? The deadlift. The deadlift works them more effectively than the back squat beucase it is the heaviest load we can expose our lower back to, and hamstrings act isometrically AND concentrically, as supposed to just isometrically in the back squat. So since we know that deadlift will cover our low back and hamstring strength, why limit our quad and glute strength(mainly quad strength beucase the deadlift works the glutes too) by back squatting? Even Bill Starr said in one of his articles that front squats are the greatest test of pure hip and leg strength. Thank you for your time and free service.

This has been covered so many times.

[Alberto Velazquez]

Bobby, if you think front squats are better than back squats then do them. Have fun. And like Will said it has been covered many times.

[SD3]

We don't prefer front squats over low bar back squats for the same reason that we do not prefer close grip over neutral grip width bench press. Because although they both have longer ranges of motion and put more stress on certain muscles (quads in front squat and triceps in close grip) they also leave other muscle groups out (hamstrings and lower back in front squats and pecs in close grips) and use less weight. Also the front squat does put the knees through a longer range of motion but not the hips. That being said they are both useful assistance exercises but shouldn't be used exclusively over their more useful parent exercises.

[Bobby32]

I have searched around the forums, and could not find this exact topic discussed. Maybe my search function is messed up or something. If you don’t mind, could you link me to where this has been discussed before? SD3, yes the hamstrings and low back don’t get worked in the front squat, but deadlifts work those even harder than the back squat. I guess the argument can be made that you can’t train deadlifts with lots of volume, but that is mainly because people usually train them at too high of an intensity. The guys at BBM can train deadlifts for volume beucase they use a lower intensity(RPE6-8). 5 reps at RPE 8 is 81%. People that have trouble recovering from deadlifts USUALLY train them with high intensity(85%-100%).

[Bobby32]

Bill Starr’s article on the subject:The Front Squat | Iron Man Magazine

[Adam Skillin]

I have searched around the forums, and could not find this exact topic discussed. Maybe my search function is messed up or something. If you don’t mind, could you link me to where this has been discussed before? SD3, yes the hamstrings and low back don’t get worked in the front squat, but deadlifts work those even harder than the back squat. I guess the argument can be made that you can’t train deadlifts with lots of volume, but that is mainly because people usually train them at too high of an intensity. The guys at BBM can train deadlifts for volume beucase they use a lower intensity(RPE6-8). 5 reps at RPE 8 is 81%. People that have trouble recovering from deadlifts USUALLY train them with high intensity(85%-100%).

Bobby, are you a novice lifter?

[Bobby32]

Yes

[3rdcoast_slope]

I ran the LP program with the LB squat and due to multiple shoulder SX and currently a tear in my shoulder, my squat was not keeping up with my other lifts. I reached 285 for 5 and my shoulder would be in a panic mode the whole time. Long story short, I now front squat for my "squat section" of the lifts. I like them, they allow me to put some good weight on the bar and squat with no shoulder issues at all. Now that being said, if I could LB squat with heavy weight I would throw the front squat out and maybe use it periodically. The low bar squat has no comparison, it's the king of all lifts, and makes me sad I cant use it the way I want. Nonetheless, if you want the most bang for the buck, LB squats do it all. One can lift more weight, still go through a full ROM, and use more muscle mass. The squat runs the program and you would want to use the most optimal version of it. i.e the low bar squat.

[Adam Skillin]

Yes

I really recommend you wait to do all this thinking until you're not. I don't mean that to sound short, but 5x5 deadlifts and substituting front squats for heavier squats with the bar on your back are probably not going to work out nearly as well for you as just doing the program as written. Really. After the novice period, there may be a time and place for either or both of those to be incorporated in your programming, depending on a lot of factors, but now you just need to stick to the basic, hard, simple Novice LP for best results.