Revisiting the Barbell Row | Mark Rippetoe

[stef]

Rip discusses some details and lessons learned while doing the barbell row over the last year.

[vigilance]

How did you arrive at this particular form?
Would a slower, stricter movement fail to produce the same sustained strength gains?

[Mark Rippetoe]

If you want to do light weights on the barbell row, go ahead. This is the only way to do heavy weight, and therefore the only way to use it as a strength exercise.

[Chamberlain]

What is the advantage of using a conventional deadlift stance over using a sumo stance in the barbell row?

I understand the conventional stance utilizes more leg muscles and more spinal erector strength, which makes it sub-optimal for deadlifting. The purpose of the barbell row is to develop strength in the upper back, so there seems no reason to recruit additional leg or spinal erector muscles. The sumo stance increases the distance which the bar must travel during the row, which increases the strength requirements placed on the upper back. By contrast, the conventional stance widens the grip, reduces the distance the bar must travel, and makes the lift easier for the upper back. This seems to defeat the purpose of the barbell row, but I defer to those with more experience.

[Jason Donaldson]

Let's start with this: Why do the barbell row over the upright row?

[Mark Rippetoe]

What is the advantage of using a conventional deadlift stance over using a sumo stance in the barbell row?

I understand the conventional stance utilizes more leg muscles and more spinal erector strength, which makes it sub-optimal for deadlifting.

???????????

The purpose of the barbell row is to develop strength in the upper back,

??????????

so there seems no reason to recruit additional leg or spinal erector muscles.

?????????????

The sumo stance increases the distance which the bar must travel during the row, which increases the strength requirements placed on the upper back.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????

By contrast, the conventional stance widens the grip, reduces the distance the bar must travel, and makes the lift easier for the upper back.

Amazing.

This seems to defeat the purpose of the barbell row, but I defer to those with more experience.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's start with this: Why do the barbell row over the upright row?

Because the upright row is not a normal human movement pattern, it cannot be done with heavy weights, and it's not particularly good for your shoulders.

[neilc1]

bonfogjle,
obiously

[Jason Donaldson]

Because the upright row is not a normal human movement pattern, it cannot be done with heavy weights, and it's not particularly good for your shoulders.

Oh, I know that...I meant to address Chamberlain rhetorically and instructionally. I should have made it clear I was addressing that post directly, not actually asking the question at large.

Despite how very cool Rip and Chase made it look in a particular April video, the abomination that is the upright row moves less weight, uses less muscle mass, goes through a less effective range of motion, and cannot be done very safely...but it's in Arnold's encyclopedia, so it's got that going for it, I guess.

To pile on further against it, I realized a long time ago, that it essentially has you put both your shoulders at once into a badly compromised position, with force being applied in a manner that people spend time learning to do to other people against their will into in order to hurt or control them.

I was going down the road that (somehow) doing a barbell row from a sumo DL stance moves the exercise closer to the upright row, which is itself a functionally bankrupt exercise...basically a sort of reductio ad absurdum argument against Neville's response.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Good, Jason. Good.

[Shiva Kaul]

Despite how very cool Rip and Chase made it look in a particular April video, the abomination that is the upright row moves less weight, uses less muscle mass, goes through a less effective range of motion, and cannot be done very safely...but it's in Arnold's encyclopedia, so it's got that going for it, I guess.

Arnold did the conventional upright row. Rip and Chase adopted the more “mature” sumo deadlift high pull, which CrossFit describes as one of the 9 foundational exercises. The benefits are too numerous to list.