Strength and Fighting with Nick Delgadillo | Starting Strength Radio #14

[Mark E. Hurling]

If you know how to fight, it doesn't take very long to apply competitive experience to self defense or fights in "the streetz" or these back alleys you guys all hang out in. It only took you a month to apply your Judo to your job. That's not very long. Most cops spend most of their careers not being able to truly handle someone without some help.

I didn't hang out in alleys by choice. It was part of the job of keeping them safe. So if you were serious about the oath you took to serve and protect, you did what you could to accomplish that end.

My first agency was a scummy town on the wrong side of the Illinois River from Peoria. It was full of honky tonks with juke boxes, sawdust floors and gravel parking lots and had the latest closing hours for those places in three counties. So there were lots of fights to deal with and the other guys I worked with weren't always reliable in arriving for backup in a timely manner or doing a particularly effective job when they did get there. It was a steep learning curve and the rules of engagement cops operated under in the 70's were vastly looser than the ones today.

Because somebody has a hold of you with no intention of letting go. Getting up and running away is not an option until you make it an option.

Ever get in a fight with a high level wrestler?

I suspect if said wrestler got some fingers jammed in his eye(s) or throat or a fist in his balls, they might, just might mind you, want to loosen their grip a wee bit. Or maybe if they got bitten somewhere. I don't think that's in their rule book.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Agency? You were a cop?

[Mark E. Hurling]

Agency? You were a cop?

I was. And more recently a professionally diagnosed fucking psychopath.

[bikesandcars]

Why STAY on the ground, even if you are on top? Unless you feel a need to linger there and "teach your attacker a lesson." Sorry, I agree that you need to know how to counter and reverse a takedown and how to do so standing up and on the ground. But you need to not get tunnel vision and accept the attacker's preferred venue of ground fighting. Stop his incoming attack while on your back, reverse or counter it, and get up and out of there.

Because: “I am a shark, the ground is my ocean, and most people don’t know how to swim.” - Jean Jacques Machado

Best not to fight. If you have to fight you need to figure out your position of best advantage and that may be on the ground. It also may be GTF out of there.

Most fights involve drinking and silliness, guys give up once dominance is established. If you are in a fight that doesn't such as a home invasion you better keep your advantage at all costs.

As a bar worker I once ended a bouncers vs drunk patron fight with a rear naked choke on the offender. He calmed down when he woke up, had no permanent damage, nobody went to the hospital, he went home after talking with cops.

If you end up the superior grappler you can end most any common fight by getting and holding a dominate position, at which point the person usually gets the point without further violence.

my favorite: BJJ Gift Wrap - The Perfect Mount And Back Control Hybrid – BJJ World

If you don't have any grappling and you believe in SS to be harder to kill, you really should take some BJJ / Grappling classes.

[Mark E. Hurling]

These premises you present seem reasonable on their face. But some closer examination might be useful.

Because: “I am a shark, the ground is my ocean, and most people don’t know how to swim.” - Jean Jacques Machado

In a mutually agreed upon competition, with some rules of engagement and someone to enforce those rules, why not? If in a different situation where there are no rules or enforcers other than the cops, who usually arrive after the fact, it may be unwise. Sacrificing mobility and the ability to retreat expeditiously smacks of looking to score points rather than to end an attack and get out safely and relatively undamaged.

Best not to fight. If you have to fight you need to figure out your position of best advantage and that may be on the ground. It also may be GTF out of there.

I couldn't agree more about your first sentence. But not your second. If you can't avoid an attack, you need to counter or end the attack. Keeping alert and getting out before things deteriorate is key if you can do so.

Most fights involve drinking and silliness, guys give up once dominance is established. If you are in a fight that doesn't such as a home invasion you better keep your advantage at all costs.

Alcohol always seemed to be the proximate cause in the fights I was in or had to intervene in, sure enough. The concept of establishing dominance in overcoming an attack you didn't provoke seems to be a contradiction in terms. In a home invasion, if there's only one invader/attacker going to the ground might be the right choice. Often as not, these invasions are not done by just one perpetrator though. Which changes that strategy.

As a bar worker I once ended a bouncers vs drunk patron fight with a rear naked choke on the offender. He calmed down when he woke up, had no permanent damage, nobody went to the hospital, he went home after talking with cops.

Were you standing up or on the ground when this choke was applied? Significant difference in the two situations. It might be useful to to consider that you were working and perhaps had a duty to perform. Which is way different than an attack on Average Joe Citizen. Also consider that you were not alone. There was a bouncer involved who might further assist you if you had been jumped by a friend of the drunk, or perhaps another co-worker was on hand to assist you. The bottom line is, you were not a solo player in that situation. That too makes a big difference.

If you end up the superior grappler you can end most any common fight by getting and holding a dominate position, at which point the person usually gets the point without further violence.

I dunno, the point of ending or countering an attack is not to get that point across to the attacker. You stop the attack or attacker and get on with your life. Teaching the attacker a lesson is not and should not be part of that engagement.

my favorite: BJJ Gift Wrap - The Perfect Mount And Back Control Hybrid – BJJ World

No doubt about it, that's a slick move to immobilize and then ground and pound an attacker. Now consider what a video of that might look like in the event a cop or DA decides that you over escalated your response to the initial attack and pressed your counter when you could have pushed yourself up and off the ground.

If you don't have any grappling and you believe in SS to be harder to kill, you really should take some BJJ / Grappling classes.

By all means, everyone is wise to learn as many ways to protect themselves as possible. Beyond striking, knowing how to execute throws, chokes, and joint locks do indeed make it harder for someone else to try to harm or kill you. Or perhaps someone you care about or feel an obligation to protect.