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Thread: Soreness, Training, and Practice | Mark Rippetoe

  1. #1
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    Default Soreness, Training, and Practice | Mark Rippetoe

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    If your training is “affecting your game” adversely – you are unable to effectively practice because of the soreness being produced by random hard things or “functional training” that features new and exciting exercises so frequently that you cannot adapt, while involving weights so light they cannot make you stronger – your training is not being managed productively.

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  2. #2
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    Well this brings up 'fun' memories of my gym-bro days.
    Debilitating DOMS after "leg day" and "chest/shoulders/tri day," and "Back/Bi day." The classic MWF bro-split. Perpetual muscle soreness and being proud of the fact that putting on a coat was difficult. It was stupid, I was weak, and making minimal progress.
    I guess I shared the ideas about soreness that everyone else had: If you were sore, that means that you're working hard. I still see it a lot in the gym and with friends.

    Soreness does not make you stronger – it just makes you hurt. As I've said, it is possible to train productively for months without experiencing a tenth of the soreness produced by The Filthy Fifty, and at the same time getting much stronger.

    I picked up Starting Strength in July 2017 and haven't experienced DOMS once since then. I don't measure progress by soreness anymore, because that's silly. Progress is more weight on the bar; soreness really has nothing to do with it.

    For fun, here's a leg day that I remember:
    Squat 3x8, Weighted lunges up and down the gym x3, Leg Press 3x8, Calf machine 3x8, Ham curl 3x8, Quad machine thing 3x8, Kettlebell thrusts 3x8
    Funny that sets of 8 are considered the perfect mix of strength and hypertrophy, because I didn't gain either of those.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaimi Kuenzli View Post
    Well this brings up 'fun' memories of my gym-bro days.
    Debilitating DOMS after "leg day" and "chest/shoulders/tri day," and "Back/Bi day." The classic MWF bro-split. Perpetual muscle soreness and being proud of the fact that putting on a coat was difficult. It was stupid, I was weak, and making minimal progress.
    I guess I shared the ideas about soreness that everyone else had: If you were sore, that means that you're working hard. I still see it a lot in the gym and with friends.

    Soreness does not make you stronger – it just makes you hurt. As I've said, it is possible to train productively for months without experiencing a tenth of the soreness produced by The Filthy Fifty, and at the same time getting much stronger.

    I picked up Starting Strength in July 2017 and haven't experienced DOMS once since then. I don't measure progress by soreness anymore, because that's silly. Progress is more weight on the bar; soreness really has nothing to do with it.

    For fun, here's a leg day that I remember:
    Squat 3x8, Weighted lunges up and down the gym x3, Leg Press 3x8, Calf machine 3x8, Ham curl 3x8, Quad machine thing 3x8, Kettlebell thrusts 3x8
    Funny that sets of 8 are considered the perfect mix of strength and hypertrophy, because I didn't gain either of those.
    I came from that same kind of "training" and mindset as well. I remember how pleased I was to have leg DOMs 4 days post workout because I thought I must be progressing if I'm crippling sore. I was weak as shit and didn't know it. Had abs though!

  4. #4
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    'Soreness does not make you stronger – it just makes you hurt.'

    I LOVE this statement So simple, yet so true.

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    But if I’m not sore, how will anyone else know how badly I crushed it at the gym? I need people to know how tough I am!!!!

  6. #6
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    Question DOMS after power cleans

    Quote Originally Posted by stef View Post
    If your training is “affecting your game” adversely – you are unable to effectively practice because of the soreness being produced by random hard things or “functional training” that features new and exciting exercises so frequently that you cannot adapt, while involving weights so light they cannot make you stronger – your training is not being managed productively.

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    Hi Rip,

    I couldn't find a reference to this on the forum. Have read the book, listened a load of SS Q&As and am 4 weeks into the programme. 27 years old, 5ft 10in, 170lbs (up from 154, but still far too light).

    I recently started Phase 2 so am now alternating between deadlifts and power cleans. Until I introduced power cleans, I hadn't experienced any significant DOMs in the programme, apart from week 1 when I was detrained and went too hard too fast. For the 2-3 days after I power clean, I'm now experiencing significant DOMs (enough for it to still be sore when I deadlift in the next workout). I have two questions:

    1) Is it normal for power cleans to cause more muscle soreness than squats, deadlifts, press and bench press?

    2) Is it of any concern that power cleans are causing this much soreness/inflammation? I have no problem with the pain itself; I'm more worried about inflammation slowing my progress. Should I consider reducing my power clean volume from 5 sets of 3 reps?

    Thanks,
    Chris

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisw12 View Post
    1) Is it normal for power cleans to cause more muscle soreness than squats, deadlifts, press and bench press?
    No, since it's a concentric lift with the only unconditioned things for a person who's deadlifting being the extra lat stress and different trap movement. But you don't specify what is sore, so it's tough to say what you're up to at all.

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    Thanks for getting back Stef. It's mostly my traps and rear delts that are sore for 2-3 days after doing power cleans. I've been doing them for 2 weeks now and still seem to get the same level of soreness as I did the first time I performed power cleans.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Reid View Post
    'Soreness does not make you stronger – it just makes you hurt.'

    I LOVE this statement So simple, yet so true.
    T-shirt material, definitely.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Are you using bumper plates and dropping the bar straight down after completing the rep, or do you drop down to the hang first, then set it down? Is the second, that might be what's causing soreness.

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