Artificially Weak Deadlifts, Part 1: Perception vs Reality | Robert Santana Artificially Weak Deadlifts, Part 1: Perception vs Reality | Robert Santana - Page 3

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Thread: Artificially Weak Deadlifts, Part 1: Perception vs Reality | Robert Santana

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Get that up to 500. You'll fill out nicely as a result. Part 2 will focus more on technical aspects of the lift that cause the excessive repeating of loads on the LP
    Looking forward to that, myself. I'm curious to hunt down anything that might be holding mine back. Lately I did a 10% reset to get a better handle on the hook grip, which was coming apart when I just tried doing it out of the gate at 300. Today is actually going to be my next 300 attempt.

  2. #22
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    Hook grip all of your sets until you get comfortable enough to know what to expect. I pulled 500 with it just fine. It hurt but I did not care. Happy to help if you are in the market for some coaching.

  3. #23
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    Yeah I dunno, it's something that only happens in the left hand. Something just doesn't line up right with the thumb on that one and I end up with a pull where it's a lot more than just discomfort. But getting the thumb right helps it. The 300 worked out, though apparently I'm sometimes forgetting to set the back, probably because I'm putting the mental effort into getting that thumb setup correctly.

  4. #24
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    Just find the spot that works and remember where it is. At this point I know exactly where the pressure needs to be applied after years of practice.

  5. #25
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    Robert, thanks for the excellent article and the helpful suggestions here. I hadn’t picked up on the importance of keeping the ratio of DLs to squats high, and I’m wondering if that’s why I’m now finding myself stalling and even kind of going backwards on DLs. Do you sometimes see actual regression in these cases?

    Quick synopsis: male, 56 years old, 6’1”, 210 lbs. I had a stroke in Dec. 2018 – full recovery, but missed a couple of months in the gym. Pre-stroke, DL was 365 x 3, squat was 315 x 5 x 3. Once I could lift again, I did a kind of old man LP, doing squats and DLs for sets of 5 twice a week at first, then dropping DLs to once per week. That morphed into a standard intermediate 4-day split, which in turn morphed into 4 workouts on a Mon.-Wed.-Fri. grid, i.e., the training “week” is now 9-10 days long.

    As I went through all that, the DLs wound up just a little ahead of the squats – wasn’t really thinking about it and just wanted to get my numbers back up. At the point when DLs were at 350 x 3 x 2 (with straps) and squats were at 325 x 3 x 3, I decided to reset the DLs back to 285 in order to ditch the straps.

    Some other stuff happened (missed workouts due to travel, summer colds, etc.) and now I’m at 355 x 3 on the squats, but the DLs stalled at 330 and started going backwards. I did a mini-reset on the DLs back to 315 x 5 and that was fine, but then last night I was going for 320 x 5 and failed the 5th rep. My grip isn’t slipping – I use DOH as long as possible then switch to alternate.

    So based on what I’m seeing here, I guess maybe I need to drop my squats way back to maybe @275?

    Thanks!

  6. #26
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    Thanks for sharing. People seem to forget that there is overlapping stress between the squat and the deadlift so you want to undulate them properly. If you start them close together the squat will almost always trash the back and you'll miss deadlifts you could otherwise complete.

  7. #27
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    Robert,

    I just did 500x5x3 on the Squat and 500x5x1 on the Deadlift.

    I always seem to have a problem of continuing the increase on my Deadlift past this point. My squat should be able to keep going up to 515-525, but I am worried that my deadlift is going to fall back. Should I prioritize the deadlift for a little bit, and drop off on the deadlift?

  8. #28
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    The undulation between the squat and the deadlift becomes more important as we get stronger. It's not that you are "babying your squat" it's more that you are managing stress. The two lifts overlap and the squat is less sensitive to the effects of deadlifts because it doesn't start from a stationary position. So what typically happens is a heavy squat will fatigue the low back leaving the lifter unable to break his deadlifts off of the floor. So you want to really approach this like you would approach intermediate programming. We have heavy/light/medium days per lift but I find that it helps to treat the squat and the deadlift as one "collective lift." This isn't 100% true but useful for illustrating the point. Squat and deadlift stress overlap and both must be considered when programming either lift. So if you are squatting lighter to deadlift heavier you aren't detraining the squat, you are managing stress. When it comes time to peak the lifts they will both cooperate just fine.

    So my advice to you is take weight off of the squat and push the deadlift up. You may have to alternate rack pulls with deadlifts, haltings, or deficits (depending on which heavy floor pull you prefer). Haltings are the default recommendation here and they work just fine. The point is that the heavy squat is probably causing too much stress and your floor pull is >500 for reps so I would first lower the squat and if that doesn't work then break up the pull and move to a biweekly progression for your limit pull. Also, what is your height/weight/age/waist circumference?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    The undulation between the squat and the deadlift becomes more important as we get stronger. It's not that you are "babying your squat" it's more that you are managing stress. The two lifts overlap and the squat is less sensitive to the effects of deadlifts because it doesn't start from a stationary position. So what typically happens is a heavy squat will fatigue the low back leaving the lifter unable to break his deadlifts off of the floor. So you want to really approach this like you would approach intermediate programming. We have heavy/light/medium days per lift but I find that it helps to treat the squat and the deadlift as one "collective lift." This isn't 100% true but useful for illustrating the point. Squat and deadlift stress overlap and both must be considered when programming either lift. So if you are squatting lighter to deadlift heavier you aren't detraining the squat, you are managing stress. When it comes time to peak the lifts they will both cooperate just fine.

    So my advice to you is take weight off of the squat and push the deadlift up. You may have to alternate rack pulls with deadlifts, haltings, or deficits (depending on which heavy floor pull you prefer). Haltings are the default recommendation here and they work just fine. The point is that the heavy squat is probably causing too much stress and your floor pull is >500 for reps so I would first lower the squat and if that doesn't work then break up the pull and move to a biweekly progression for your limit pull. Also, what is your height/weight/age/waist circumference?
    6'
    ~265
    27 y/o
    42" Waist

    I was planning to start using a lighter squat day and get a heavier deadlift earlier in the week and moving towards a heavier squat with a moderate deadlift near the end of the week.
    My training is sometimes hindered by work/travel/overall stress from being a Collegiate S&C Coach that works 9-14 hr days. Some weeks I am able to get in 2 days, but a good majority I can get in 3 days.

  10. #30
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    Waistline may be a problem but not always depending on the musculature beneath. I would suggest remembering that the absolute load matters here. If you are squatting limit sets with 500 lb and your best deadlift is 500 lb for the same number of reps, chances are your deadlift won't go much further based on the situation you described. You'll have to push it up while keeping the squat lower in an effort to manage the stress so the back can do it's job in facilitating the pull off of the floor.

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