Artificially Weak Deadlifts, Part 1: Perception vs Reality | Robert Santana Artificially Weak Deadlifts, Part 1: Perception vs Reality | Robert Santana - Page 5

starting strength gym
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 41 to 48 of 48

Thread: Artificially Weak Deadlifts, Part 1: Perception vs Reality | Robert Santana

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    2

    Default

    • wichita falls texas march seminar date
    • woodmere new york april seminar date
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    What Rip said and can you please post height/weight and loads lifted on squats and deadlifts?
    Yes, I saw that article linked in another recent post about the deadlift as well.

    I'm male, 21, 5'9", about 135 lbs. I understand that gaining weight is part of making progress, I've gained about 5 pounds since starting three weeks ago.

    On Friday I squatted 135 and attempted 200 on the deadlift, dropping the weight in 10 lb increments down to 170 before I could get it moving to complete a workset for the day. I had completed a five rep set of 190 on Monday which felt difficult, then on Wednesday I did power cleans (up to 65 lbs) for the first time in place of deadlifting. For reference, my day one workset weights were 80 on the squat and 115 on the deadlift which I progressed 10 and 15 lbs respectively for the first three jumps then 5 and 10 lbs respectively after that.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Deadlifts go to a weekly progression by the end of the program. This is also outlined in the book. In fact, they increase every 9 days if you follow advanced novice as written.
    Sorry, I should have specified, I'm running an intermediate program, not LP. Specifically, what I think of as an old man's 4-day split spread out over Mon.-Wed.-Fri., so that the "week" is 9-10 days long.

    I'm guessing the answer to my question is that once I've run out the DLs, I should keep on running out the squats while resetting DLs, which is what I took away from PPST. But this issue of an overly heavy squat killing DLs is a revelation to me (and apparently to others as well), so I was wondering if you'd suggest resetting them together.

    Thanks again and sorry for the confusion.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Deadlifts go to a weekly progression by the end of the program. This is also outlined in the book. In fact, they increase every 9 days if you follow advanced novice as written.
    Robert, this brings up a question regarding transitioning to intermediate programming. All of the intermediate models in Practical Programming seem to assume a weekly deadlift on intensity day, at least initially. For someone (like me) who's deadlifting on a 9 day rotation, should they go back to a weekly intensity deadlift when starting intermediate programming, or immediately go into a weekly rotation of rack pulls, haltings, and deadlifts on intensity day? (Or a similar rotation using deadlift alternatives like stiff-legs and snatch grips?)

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    40,078

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    2,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Weiss View Post
    Yes, I saw that article linked in another recent post about the deadlift as well.

    I'm male, 21, 5'9", about 135 lbs. I understand that gaining weight is part of making progress, I've gained about 5 pounds since starting three weeks ago.

    On Friday I squatted 135 and attempted 200 on the deadlift, dropping the weight in 10 lb increments down to 170 before I could get it moving to complete a workset for the day. I had completed a five rep set of 190 on Monday which felt difficult, then on Wednesday I did power cleans (up to 65 lbs) for the first time in place of deadlifting. For reference, my day one workset weights were 80 on the squat and 115 on the deadlift which I progressed 10 and 15 lbs respectively for the first three jumps then 5 and 10 lbs respectively after that.
    A Clarification | Mark Rippetoe (Rippetoe, 2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Treg View Post
    Sorry, I should have specified, I'm running an intermediate program, not LP. Specifically, what I think of as an old man's 4-day split spread out over Mon.-Wed.-Fri., so that the "week" is 9-10 days long.

    I'm guessing the answer to my question is that once I've run out the DLs, I should keep on running out the squats while resetting DLs, which is what I took away from PPST. But this issue of an overly heavy squat killing DLs is a revelation to me (and apparently to others as well), so I was wondering if you'd suggest resetting them together.

    Thanks again and sorry for the confusion.
    Have you switched to pulling heavy off of the floor every other week?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    Robert, this brings up a question regarding transitioning to intermediate programming. All of the intermediate models in Practical Programming seem to assume a weekly deadlift on intensity day, at least initially. For someone (like me) who's deadlifting on a 9 day rotation, should they go back to a weekly intensity deadlift when starting intermediate programming, or immediately go into a weekly rotation of rack pulls, haltings, and deadlifts on intensity day? (Or a similar rotation using deadlift alternatives like stiff-legs and snatch grips?)
    Why are you on a 9 day rotation? Are you referring to advanced novice? How much are you squatting and deadlifting?

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    A Clarification | Mark Rippetoe (Rippetoe, 2019)



    Have you switched to pulling heavy off of the floor every other week?



    Why are you on a 9 day rotation? Are you referring to advanced novice? How much are you squatting and deadlifting?
    Yes, advanced novice. 335 squat, 395 dl.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    2,557

    Default

    I can't speak for Rip or Andy but my thought is that because you are hitting a new squat PR twice per week you are therefore squatting heavy twice in a 5 day period. Therefore, the longer lead time allows your back a little more recovery. In contrast, you are squatting heavy once every 7 days on an intermediate program so you can better recover from also pulling every 7 days. This ties to what I wrote about the two lifts having overlapping stress and thus the stress of both should be approached cumulatively rather than individually from a programming standpoint. I'm not sure that this is the reasoning so I'll let Rip or Andy clarify that point. I typically prescribe an intermediate pulling schedule to advanced novices to avoid artificially weakening the deadlift and it works pretty well. Sometimes it's weekly pulling off of the floor and other times it's biweekly partials (more common in trainees >40 years old). Works pretty well in my experience.
    Last edited by Robert Santana; 10-28-2019 at 05:09 PM.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Kingwood TX
    Posts
    8,891

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Haven't read the whole thread so forgive if I've missed any context. But I agree wholeheartedly about treating squat/deadlift training as sort of a cumulative thing rather than 2 distinct lifts. You can't really make radical adjustments to one without effecting the other. I do think that in many cases squat volume can basically be considered the volume lift for both the squat and the deadlift, while deadlift training can be limited to just a few heavy efforts per week or even per month. This leads to my second point.....these types of issues are nearly impossible to solve/prescribe in a general sense. Pulling volume, frequency, intensity tends to get really really individualized at the intermediate and advanced level and blanket recommendations tend to come with a whole lot of caveats.

    Let me know if you need further clarification on something.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •