A Marine on Weightlifting Shoes | Grant Broggi

[DKT]

What do you mean by "empirical evidence"? If your assertion that a barefooted 600-pound deadlifter with healthy feet is empirical evidence, if I show you a 600-pound deadlifter with fallen arches, is that empirical evidence too?

Sure, that would count as evidence. Can you show me such a deadlifter? And, what's far more important, can you establish that his fallen arches were caused by deadlifting without arch support?

Here's the logic of our two position:

1. Lots of people (including me) deadlift with flat, crappy shoes or no shoes at all, and they don't develop fallen arches. That is sufficient evidence to conclude deadlifting without foot support is not, by itself, a cause of fallen arches.

2. Some people who deadlift that way do develop fallen arches. But that is not sufficient evidence to conclude that deadlifting without foot support caused that condition. The root cause could be a structural abnormality of the foot that was aggravated by deadlifting.

Long story short: Your position bears a heavier burden of proof than mine. Dress accordingly.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that your feet get trained no matter what type of shoe you’re wearing, if any at all. The feet don’t have a choice. Just like your hands get trained doing heavy pulls and presses, even if you’re wearing gloves (don’t), and your midsection gets trained even if you’re wearing a belt.

That sounds plausible. I'm not saying that feet don't get trained if they are encased in special shoes (though I doubt that they get trained in the same way and to the same extent as with unsupported lifting). What I'm challenging is the suggestion that healthy feet require such shoes for deadlifting, that without such shoes, one cannot develop the stability and balance needed in a heavy pull. That suggestion is clearly false, as evinced by people who pull very heavy DLs without shoes and don't develop any foot problems. (I'm not sure that wearing a belt is analogous to wearing special support shoes, but no need to go into the tall wheat on that one.)

[Mark Rippetoe]

Your logic is devastating. I guess you win.

[DKT]

Your logic is devastating. I guess you win.

It isn't my logic, but I agree that it is devastating to your position.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It guts me. Tell all your friends.

[DKT]

It guts me. Tell all your friends.

Guts you? Jesus Christ! Must you view this as a contest mano à mano? We're discussing matters of fact about shoes, Rip. Shoes! Next time, leave your ego at the door.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I swear I'll do better next time. Really. I promise.

[DKT]

I swear I'll do better next time. Really. I promise.

No you won't. You're just saying that in the forlorn hope that I won't gut you again.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Man, what do you want from me? You've humiliated me in front of millions of people, embarrassed me in front of my friends and family, destroyed my professional credibility, so what's left? You want my blood???

[Aaron Hutson]

Man, what do you want from me? You've humiliated me in front of millions of people, embarrassed me in front of my friends and family, destroyed my professional credibility, so what's left? You want my blood???

Rip,

Why aren’t weightlifting shoes manufactured with steel toes? It’s seems like it could be a beneficial safety measure in case of accidents. Have you ever seen someone drop a 45 on their foot?

DKT,

Do you sleep on a mattress?

[DKT]

Man, what do you want from me? You've humiliated me in front of millions of people,

LMAO! You really think millions of people visit this 2x4 forum?