Disaster of a training day, unsure what to do next. Disaster of a training day, unsure what to do next.

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Thread: Disaster of a training day, unsure what to do next.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
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    Default Disaster of a training day, unsure what to do next.

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    My workout today was a disaster. I don't know what else to call it. Squat/press/deadlift today. Squat I managed, but it's also still 15 pounds lower than the best I've done, because I'm trying like hell to get aspects of the grip and the bar on the shoulders correct. Despite this, my legs have been left on the weaker side recently. It's becoming more of a strain just to get up from a seated position all the time, especially so after today. Press was scheduled for a 2 pound jump. I managed 2 of those prior to this, so I figured I'd go for another until I had to start dropping to 1s. I got out 3 before a total failure, first set in. I took the .5s off either side to finish the last 2 reps one pound lower (a one pound jump from last time), and I couldn't get the bar up. I ended up having to drop weight down 10 pounds before I could get 3 sets of 5 out with it. My last workout was a tough but doable 124 for 3 sets of 5. This one ended up being 115 for the same. Deadlift was even worse. Granted, I'd been doing 10 pound jumps recently and pulling it off despite trepidation each time, since I knew 10s wasn't going to keep up. But 10 pounds more than last time resulted in me not even being able to get the thing off the ground once. I stripped the bar down to the 45s to put it back in the rack (a weight 20 pounds lighter than my PR last session) and it was hell getting it there.

    My food and sleep are fine, I don't know what to do, this seems like way more than just a missed PR. First inclination was to look into information about beginning intermediate programming, but the consensus seems to be that a guy like me should be managing larger numbers (on the squat, at least) before going into intermediate stuff. I haven't even thrown in the light day for my squats yet, and people seem to think even that shouldn't be done until much further on than where I'm at. I'm not even squatting with bodyweight on the bar yet. Any ideas on what might be going on here and how to fix it?

  2. #2
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    If itís a bad day keep going repeat the workout next time.

    If itís a true stall then reset and consider appropriate programming changes:
    Minimum Effective Dose for Maximum Strength, Part 2 | Matt Reynolds

  3. #3
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    Apr 2011
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    You might need coaching. At least online coaching.

  4. #4
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    Oct 2017
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    Uk
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    :sigh:

    "We need information, in-for-mation. What is you number ?" Those familiar with 'The Prisoner' will remember that line.

    If you've had a bad day, then just give up that's my advice. Take up something that doesn't get you all upset and confused.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    Train!

  6. #6
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    Apr 2019
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    Vienna, VA
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    How strong are you in the 4 main lifts? How big are you? Are you doing the standard 3-day SSNLP, or some variant or modification? How long have you been at it? If it has been more than a few months, when is the last break you've had longer than a weekend?

  7. #7
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    Jul 2019
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    I've lifted again since, yesterday. I made it a "light day" across the board, though. Basically everything was 80% of what my last completed workout was. Since tuesday I've had some kind of head cold or something build up. I wonder if that might have been the cause of the disaster day. But I also wonder if the causality might go the other way. In recent weeks I do seem to have been getting sick more frequently than usual (this is my second bad cold within the span of a month), and I wonder if I've been overdoing it and need to start winding the NLP down with the advanced novice stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by BastiatBB View Post
    How strong are you in the 4 main lifts? How big are you? Are you doing the standard 3-day SSNLP, or some variant or modification? How long have you been at it? If it has been more than a few months, when is the last break you've had longer than a weekend?
    My best lifts I've completed prescribed work sets with were 124 press, 180 bench, 335 deadlift, and 250 squat. The squat I have been trying to iron out some form issues with though, so I haven't been progressing past 250 the past few workouts. My own size is 6'2", pushing 260 pounds now. It's getting kinda hard to get a "true" bodyweight these days with all the stuff I've been consuming. For reference, I was at 214 pounds when I was beginning. I guess my stats might seem "large" to some, but I'm not a very big built guy, just tall. My torso/rib cage is on the smaller side compared to others my height. Toward the end of puberty before I'd ever gotten into any sort of lifting or exercise (IE, a true blue, 0 experience novice), I weighed 120 pounds. I just have fairly long limbs (probably about half my height or more is in my legs). Been doing standard NLP, only modification being no power cleans since I can't drop the loaded bar in my gym, and setting down heavier cleans to the hang position first was aggravating my biceps tendons something fierce in my left arm. I didn't like having to do that, since I don't want to second-guess the program like I've seen many people do, but it's the only option I could really go with at the moment. I've been running the program consistently since June. I've missed one training day since due to illness, another due to a funeral. The illness was more recent, but I actually came back to the weight room feeling like a million bucks, the most surprising being the two ten pound deadlift jumps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    :sigh:

    "We need information, in-for-mation. What is you number ?" Those familiar with 'The Prisoner' will remember that line.

    If you've had a bad day, then just give up that's my advice. Take up something that doesn't get you all upset and confused.
    I am not a number, I am a FREE MAN! I'll pass on the giving up. This was just a very strange occurrence and I wasn't sure what to make of it. I've had missed reps before, but this was definitely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiigelec View Post
    If itís a bad day keep going repeat the workout next time.

    If itís a true stall then reset and consider appropriate programming changes:
    Minimum Effective Dose for Maximum Strength, Part 2 | Matt Reynolds
    Thanks, I'll add this to the bookmarks. I've seen a bunch of good resources on the "Advanced novice" stuff, though a lot of it is also in PPST.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alberto Velazquez View Post
    You might need coaching. At least online coaching.
    While I'm sure I'd stand to benefit from it, and in fact probably ANY novice self-administering the NLP can probably stand to benefit from having it administered by an actual coach who knows what they're doing instead, my circumstances do not currently allow for this option. I'm between jobs and my gym's weight room is too cramped to try and setup something to record myself lifting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulbfast View Post
    Train!
    I do like where your head is at.

  8. #8
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    Oct 2017
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    Uk
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    Still hasn't sunk in 'numbers'

    Explicitly. Presumably you are on NLP (are you doing so without modifications ? Are you doing so accurately I.e not doing 3 sets 5 DL, or some other thing that could cause additional stress) Start date, body weight, age, sex, starting lift weight; today, body weight, age, sex, current lift weights. Diet: how many calories Carbs, protein, fats ; Rest between sets ; are you taking an energy drink, are you hydrating sufficiently. Are you sleeping well.

    Are you burning the candle at both ends, having late nights, doing something very active that compromises recovery like playing a football match, or hill walking, doing long days at work ? Are you lacking any nutrients in your diet ? Have you been having cramps, health issues of any kind -have you had your bloods checked recently ?

    A mild head cold won't cripple your lifts, insufficient recovery, an underlying health issue, undue emotional/physical stress, a lack of nutrients/insufficient calories, dehydration will do so.

  9. #9
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    Jul 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    Still hasn't sunk in 'numbers'

    Explicitly. Presumably you are on NLP (are you doing so without modifications ? Are you doing so accurately I.e not doing 3 sets 5 DL, or some other thing that could cause additional stress) Start date, body weight, age, sex, starting lift weight; today, body weight, age, sex, current lift weights. Diet: how many calories Carbs, protein, fats ; Rest between sets ; are you taking an energy drink, are you hydrating sufficiently. Are you sleeping well.

    Are you burning the candle at both ends, having late nights, doing something very active that compromises recovery like playing a football match, or hill walking, doing long days at work ? Are you lacking any nutrients in your diet ? Have you been having cramps, health issues of any kind -have you had your bloods checked recently ?

    A mild head cold won't cripple your lifts, insufficient recovery, an underlying health issue, undue emotional/physical stress, a lack of nutrients/insufficient calories, dehydration will do so.
    A lot of that was in the answers I gave BastiatBB. No modifications that would cause increased stress, unless not alternating deadlift/power clean would throw the thing off that much. My first squat entry was June 18. It's hard to determine true "start" weights because I'd done the program very briefly for a few weeks earlier this year before starting this run of it, and before that I'd done another program where many of the SS lifts were included, but some of them were for 8s. I'd also lifted a bunch over the years prior, many times not logged, but it wasn't on any structured program and any gain was small, but definitely there.
    Weights on June 18th (or 20th for the bench):
    Squat: 140 pounds (250 was current best, but form was real bad, a lot of back rounding and thus bar rolling was going on)
    Press: 85 pounds (current PR 124)
    Bench: 120 pounds (current PR 180)
    Deadlift: 225 pounds (current PR 335)

    I haven't done a total number crunch of my diet in a while. Last I did I was doing about 4000 calories, with 240g protein and 350g carbs or so. I've added a bunch more since. I upped the two glasses of orange juice I have a day from 8 to 16 ounces each, also include a 16 ounce glass of milk with every meal that isn't a protein shake. Added a cup of white rice to my morning eggs, and added a 5th meal to my day that is essentially a homemade version of Stan Efferding's monster mash. 1 cup white rice, 1 cup ground beef, 1 cup broth, and a diced up potato. I take a pretty loaded multivitamin daily, along with two fish oil pills, to try and account for any potentially lacking micros. I'm going to try and get even more carbs in, but I have to start adding in some more high glycemic index stuff, because I need it to digest faster to make room for other things.

    Sleeping I get 8-9 hours. I do end up going to bed late often, but I still get the right hours. I don't have any strenuous physical activities going on outside the gym. No cramps. There's been a weird stubborn soreness around the area where the quads come to the knee, but that's it. Health-wise I just had the two bad colds (not mild ones, ones where I was blowing and coughing out a whole lot of nastiness) and what I think was some kind of ear infection. But those all happened within the span of about a month, which is what made me wonder if I'm somehow overtraining.

    On workout day itself, I don't have energy drinks (never liked them). I do get in caffeine from a 100mg pill and/or a coke I grab at the gas station on the way to the gym. At the gym I have a bottle filled with water mixed with a couple scoops of a gatorade drink mix. My set rest times are 5 minutes minimum (6 sometimes right before the final squat set).

    Oh, and I am, in fact, male. Probably should have included that with the height and weight. 35 years old.

  10. #10
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    Oct 2017
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    Uk
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    starting strength coach development program
    So, in conclusion:

    You are doing the program as written 3x5 Bench, press, squats and 1x5 DL @ 3 times per week. These PRs are for each of those lifts, for those sets/reps and not 1RM tests ? Male 6'2" 260lbs.

    Those numbers don't look particularly amazing for age and weight, which would suggest you aren't over training. It would be worth popping over to the nutrition forum as I don't know about the calories needed for maintenance, Santana is the greatest on that. If you are under eating -which I'm inclined to think is the problem here, taking out the other variables, it's the most likely. As weight on the bar has increased you are probably under eating for the additional work. One day it just caught up with you, possibly with the added stress/calories required for fighting off a cold.

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