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Thread: What Happens When a Lifter Gets Old | Starting Strength Radio #35

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjack View Post
    I agree Matt, equating it with PED's was very silly and I didn't do that, why did you ?
    I would be concerned about taking melatonin because I would not want to rely on it. I have actually read that it is quite difficult to come off and quite habit forming. I relied on Valarian root when I was younger and it's horrible relying on something to help you sleep, valarian was horrible to try and wean myself off and I would never want to go through that again. For disclosure I have abused recreational substances over the years so am no angel, and am not trying to be "holier than thou" either, I just have never used any PED's though, always wanted to do it naturally.
    Rip I'm glad you chipped in, would you mind responding to my training, question ? dilemma.
    After you answer my question.

  2. #22
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    I think I have already, though not specifically, if i have used recreational substances you can be sure I have used paracetamol, ibuprofen, have no issues with anything like that at all, I even take the odd sleeping tablet myself, I don't however want to take anything which i would rely on, especially for sleep.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjack View Post
    At what age rip did you realize that you had to make changes ?
    Changes are made gradually, and usually coincide with injuries that force you to readjust your training frequency and tonnage. Some people can carry forward longer than others, and it also depends on how old you were when you started training. Stones and Farmer's walks cannot really be trained, since it's hard to incrementally load them, and it's not necessary if you are training the barbell exercises.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjack View Post
    I agree Matt, equating it with PED's was very silly and I didn't do that, why did you ?
    I would be concerned about taking melatonin because I would not want to rely on it. I have actually read that it is quite difficult to come off and quite habit forming. I relied on Valarian root when I was younger and it's horrible relying on something to help you sleep, valarian was horrible to try and wean myself off and I would never want to go through that again. For disclosure I have abused recreational substances over the years so am no angel, and am not trying to be "holier than thou" either, I just have never used any PED's though, always wanted to do it naturally.
    Rip I'm glad you chipped in, would you mind responding to my training, question ? dilemma.
    Nothing I've read suggests that melatonin is habit forming. (Or valerian root for that matter, though it sounds like you had a different experience? ). I've had doctors recommend melatonin specifically because it's not.

  5. #25
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    My experience with it was that it works for about 4 days at the same dose, and that's all.

  6. #26
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    Thanks for getting back to me.
    I can incrementally load farmers but not stones, so are you saying no need to do stones and farmers if I use barbells?
    I love both movements, stones are an unreal buzz to lift.

    "4 days at the same dose and then you need to increase". That sounds like a slippery slope to me, I had a literal living nightmare with Valerian, trying to wean myself off it at least. Lavender drops I find are really good on the pillow or bed sheets and get me off to sleep real quick.
    No tea or fluid after 9pm seems to stop me needing to wake up for a piss at 3am.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjack View Post
    I agree Matt, equating it with PED's was very silly and I didn't do that, why did you ?
    I would be concerned about taking melatonin because I would not want to rely on it. I have actually read that it is quite difficult to come off and quite habit forming. I relied on Valarian root when I was younger and it's horrible relying on something to help you sleep, valarian was horrible to try and wean myself off and I would never want to go through that again. For disclosure I have abused recreational substances over the years so am no angel, and am not trying to be "holier than thou" either, I just have never used any PED's though, always wanted to do it naturally.
    Rip I'm glad you chipped in, would you mind responding to my training, question ? dilemma.
    Interesting. I've been an RN for 14+ years working night and swing shifts mostly up until a few months ago and have been taking melatonin intermittently for years. I work day shift now and have to be up very early. Sometimes I'll take melatonin. I do not take it every night. Sometimes I'll take it for a few weeks at a time, other times I'll go months without taking it. Melatonin is far from habit forming, and that's the first time I've ever heard someone mention that it is. But I guess if you dig deep enough, and you're on a mission to find something specific you'll eventually find it on the internet. Comparing melatonin to controlled substances that have a high rate of addiction is just not valid or a legitimate comparisons to make.

    In all the years I've worked in healthcare I have never once seen anyone come to the emergency department drug seeking melatonin like they do other controlled substances. Melatonin isn't flying off the shelves and people aren't being rushed to the hospital in ambulances from a Melatonin overdose. I haven't heard of anyone's life being ruined because they just can't get enough of that Melatonin. I've also never heard of a black market demand for melatonin, but hey, maybe I'm missing something. If you know something I don't know, I'm all ears.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    My experience with it was that it works for about 4 days at the same dose, and that's all.
    My observation is that it works well to signal the body that it's time to sleep. So, useful if you're a shift worker or jetlagged, or have an inconsistent sleep schedule. It doesn't help me stay asleep.

    Do you take anything to help with the old-guy sleep issues (i.e. waking up after a few hours and struggling to get back to sleep)?

    My own experience is pretty limited. Melatonin, see above. Valerian root helps me sleep but I don't feel as rested. Diphenhydramine (benadryl) works great for me but it's not recommended long term for older populations. Trazodone knocks me out but I'm not willing to deal with the pill hangover.

    I fall asleep fine but I'm awake in 3-4 hours. Of the sleep aids I listed only benadryl and trazodone help me fall asleep again after I wake up the first time.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjack View Post
    Thanks for getting back to me.
    I can incrementally load farmers but not stones, so are you saying no need to do stones and farmers if I use barbells?
    I love both movements, stones are an unreal buzz to lift.
    Train the barbell, practice the strongmen stuff. I've written about this.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    My observation is that it works well to signal the body that it's time to sleep. So, useful if you're a shift worker or jetlagged, or have an inconsistent sleep schedule. It doesn't help me stay asleep.

    Do you take anything to help with the old-guy sleep issues (i.e. waking up after a few hours and struggling to get back to sleep)?

    My own experience is pretty limited. Melatonin, see above. Valerian root helps me sleep but I don't feel as rested. Diphenhydramine (benadryl) works great for me but it's not recommended long term for older populations. Trazodone knocks me out but I'm not willing to deal with the pill hangover.

    I fall asleep fine but I'm awake in 3-4 hours. Of the sleep aids I listed only benadryl and trazodone help me fall asleep again after I wake up the first time.
    I use benadryl before going to bed, even so, I do wake up a few times a night. I have taken it again if it's a bad night. One thing that I have found useful is the Fitbit guided breathing relaxation exercise. If I have brain gallop as part of the wakefulness, this flattens out the spikes.

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