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Thread: Deadlifts, heels, and hamstrings

  1. #1
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    Default Deadlifts, heels, and hamstrings

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    My understanding of the mechanics of the deadlift is that if you use a heel it gives a slight advantage to the quads when breaking the bar off the floor. However, I do not just feel it more in my hamstrings when I use my regular lifting shoes, but feel it is risking a tear. The only hamstring pull I have ever experienced when lifting is while deadlifting with a heeled shoe, and the warning signs had been there in the previous sessions. Today I started a new cycle with a significant deload and decided to try my heeled shoes again and from the first rep it felt like my hamstring was going to go.

    I cannot reconcile the feeling/effect I experience with that I (think I) know of the biomechanics. Any ideas? Is it likely that the heel is making me get the bar out in front of midfoot and the bad sensation I feel is due to the added length of the lever arm, or just simply the effort to correct the bar path as I get towards my knees?

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    That's an interesting Q. My first guess is the same as yours, you're getting a little forward and maybe hips shooting up a bit before it "bites," and when it does, you've already extended your knees so you're mostly relying on hammies and low back at that point.

    If your form is spot on, however, I wonder if the higher hip height with the heel on might have something to do with it. Yes, the knee angle is more closed and thus hammie less under strain from that end, but from the proximal end the hips are higher and that lengthens the hammy out again. I haven't measured anything so not sure about this exact interplay, but maybe the raising of hips lengthens the hammies more than the slightly more forward/flexed knees shortens them - or maybe it does so in people with certain anthropometries specifically - leading to initiating the pull from position where the hamstring is more engaged. Just an initial guess.
    Last edited by Michael Wolf; 02-25-2020 at 12:20 PM.

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    Perhaps the heeled shoe is the problem. You could try very flat wrestling shoes if you feel your foot needs the support. I know my own feet do with abnormally high insteps and arches. Also you could try deadlift slippers. An even cheaper alternative might be water shoes such as are worn in water aerobics. Walmart has them for under $15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Perhaps the heeled shoe is the problem.
    It is a given that the heel is the problem. I don't use them to deadlift in large part because of this, but every once in a while, typically after a reset, I decide to give it another try. But every time it is the same. I'm not looking for an alternative to heels, but ideas on why it feels the way it does given that it seems to run counter to how the heel changes the biomechanics of the list. I think Wolf has probably got it right in his first thought (thank you, Wolf). I have been told I am sometimes a bit sloppy off the floor and it seems that the heel exacerbates that issue for me, resulting in me finding the bar a little too far out over the toes with my knees already largely extended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LimieJosh View Post
    It is a given that the heel is the problem. I don't use them to deadlift in large part because of this, but every once in a while, typically after a reset, I decide to give it another try. But every time it is the same.
    So basically you are engaging in a mild form of self abuse. Kind of like when I used to try to eat and enjoy liver every few years or so when I was younger. I finally gave up trying to rationalize why I hated the taste and just quit.

    Maybe you might find that the right course of action.

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    If you buy shitty liver, and then cook it incorrectly, i.e. anything but medium rare, then the liver tastes like shit. I don't see an analogy here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    If you buy shitty liver, and then cook it incorrectly, i.e. anything but medium rare, then the liver tastes like shit. I don't see an analogy here.
    I think the analogy is that my shitty form off (heel or no heel) the floor is the same as shitty and overcooked liver.

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    Maybe a metaphor? Probably not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LimieJosh View Post
    I think the analogy is that my shitty form off (heel or no heel) the floor is the same as shitty and overcooked liver.
    Not really, rather it's you trying it over again when you already know what the experience will be. As in, not a good one.

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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Not really, rather it's you trying it over again when you already know what the experience will be. As in, not a good one.
    Youve completely misunderstood the situation and the point of the thread, but carry on.

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