Reply With QuoteTo be fair, Mark Bell has said that he isn't at his strongest but that isn't his goal and hasn't been for a long time.
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Joe Rogan Carnivore Diet
Dear Everyone,
Rogan is free to do as he pleases. My concern is the phenomenology of what he says due to him being one of the most powerful influencers of popular male culture in the West currently.
His current fanfare Re. the carnivore diet is anathema to Evolutionary Biological wisdom, which has proven that the physical capacity of strength has served humanity to its greatest advantage when it comes to the tail end of the bell curve when surviving flood, famine and predators (human and non human). Sure, Rogan and Mark Bell have lost fat on this diet and we all know why - less calories on a carnivore diet because it blunts
appetite - DUH! The REAL fucking question:
Why has no-one has asked Rogan or Bell or Shaun Baker - “Have you maintained your PR’s for your heaviest working set / sets whilst on the carnivore diet?”
I’ve emailed them and as yet have had no response.
And Rogan should know better too because his passion in life is mixed martial arts. A simple observation of the practitioners in that domain and the on-record comments from most of the ex champions will tell you at the dusk of their careers, the last thing that diminished was their strength. George Foreman was on record saying this very clearly. In the twilight of his career, he wasn’t as aerobically fit or mentally as fast, but the one thing he could still rely on was his strength. If something so hardwired in the DNA should be deemed sufficient by the Human to hold onto the expense of all else at the tails when he or she is about to get their ass kicked in the ring or eaten by a polar bear, then STRENGTH needs to be paid the closest of attention to.
If the current crisis in masculinity is to be addressed, I suppose the carnivore trend is at least a counterweight to Veganism - which to my mind is the equivalent of evolutionary biological treason - if maximising a person’s physical potential for life is the aim. However, the carnivore diet crowd are sacrificing strength for “razor abs”. An inferior move on the chessboard of life in my humble opinion. Hopefully there will be 100 starting strength gyms and many more in the next 5 years to settle up the score, and I’d love to see SS make a much bigger impression in Europe.
Besides, isn’t most of the planet on a carnivore diet anyway because they already eat meat? They also eat a lot of goo and rubbish but they’re still eating meat! Nothing new under the sun - unless you polish it with snake oil and post it on Instagram with the spurious knowledge that a a lot of impressionable people who have arrived on “planet health and fitness“ with honourable newbie intentions of looking for good information will pay you their hard earned money.
If the general population would just grow a better brain, shut up and do the Starting Strength program and look at the only peer reviewed study worth a damn ie. Vikings - who were huge powerful and sexy, kick everybody’s ass and fucked like jackrabbits - the human landscape would be more fertile.
As always, outstanding work done at Starting Strength.
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To be fair, Mark Bell has said that he isn't at his strongest but that isn't his goal and hasn't been for a long time.
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Yes I heard him say that on a podcast. So Mark Bell, ex Westside Barbell member now does not want to be as strong as he can personally be. Interesting goal.
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Yes, an elite-level athlete. Rip, et al., have repeatedly said that past a certain level, the returns are not worth the investment.Originally Posted by Robin UK
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The carnivore diet is keto. You are not performing to your athletic potential on either of these diets. Santa has explained in detail why carbs are important to training.
Carbohydrates and Barbell Training | Robert Santana
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It's not like he's a guy with a 350 squat and 225 bench trying to get strong. He has been there, done that....for a long time, and more successfully than most. Priorities change and chasing pounds on the bar isn't a priority any more. I don't think that unusual at all.
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I think you're leaving out a lot of what's really going on in your argument.
Bell was a huge and fat 300+ pounder at his strongest, he didn't feel or look good either I'm fairly certain. He's in his 40s now, isn't going to compete anymore it's just a maintenance phase, he's also pretty honest about what he takes. He experimented with carnivore, it's part of selling products and building social media following. If he truly feels better on it, that's a hell of a great side effect.
Baker is getting older as well, I think he's in his 50s, and he's pretty damn strong. He routinely deadlifts 500 for reps, farmers walks with 500 on a trap bar, box squats 405x10 plus. I think his goal now is some rowing sprint time. He's also selling a book, and lord knows what else he's sponsored by. The biggest thing people are finding with carnivore I believe is just the elimination of bad foods or processed foods they were previously eating. They get healthier and happier. It's a good first step.
The point is, everyone's goals change. And once you're pretty damn strong you can do whatever you want. Ask rip why he's not still shooting for a 700 deadlift.
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To my understand the main drivers of the carnivore diet were using it to avoid severe food allergies. I first heard about it from Jordan Peterson's daughter who has had some sever challenges with arthritis and food allergies. So I'm not sure it's is really meant for people closer to the mean of the population.
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1) Ask Rip yourself why he does not shoot for 700lb deadlift.
2) Ask Bell why he does not wish to be as strong as he possibly can be at every stage of his life?
3) “ The biggest thing people are finding with carnivore I believe is just the elimination of bad foods or processed foods they were previously eating. They get healthier and happier. It's a good first step“
Carbs are a bad food is your contention when evolutionary biology has decided that carbs are the human body’s preferred source of fuel for anaerobic activity ie. strength. As far as I can tell, all the world powerlifting champions at every weight class eat carbs. They know something doesn’t they?...
As far as one can accurately rely on historical records: Roman Armies ate carbs, Native American Indians ate carbs, Vikings ate carbs, Spartans ate carbs, Zulus ate carbs, Samurai ate carbs. They were omnivores. They must have known something too about whether carbs were “good” or “bad” mustn't they? Or more pertinently, what worked best for specific purposes of displays of physical strength under the harshest test of all i.e. when their civilisations’ lives were under threat in battle.
Choices.
Rip has been quoted as still doing one set of triples on the deadlift twice a month. Why does he choose to lift at that intensity re. weight on the bar? I know he says he is training to stave off death, but it’s noteworthy that he still chooses to lift this heavy. Is he still gifting his primary training motivation to hold on to as much strength as he can and thus eating carbs or calibrating the other way and ditching “bad” carbs to lean out?......Far be it from me to answer for the Master. If he comes across this I’m sure he’ll comment.
Clarification: PR for whatever life stage one is at. I assumed that people would assume that I was not talking about “Lifetime record PR’” chasing if one was at the advanced training stage of a master’s training scenario having previously set PR’s having optimised conformity to the stress recovery adaptation cycle. I made a lot of other assumptions as well and it’s late here in the UK, I’m falling asleep! Pussy Brit, apologies!
Good discussions, thanks for the interest / feedback everyone.
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Exactly. Well put on all counts.
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