Another Silly Doctor's Response

[Mark Rippetoe]

Ya, an 80 year old man with leg atrophy should really thrive off of pushing 9 sets of squats to at or near failure 3 times a week. If they're under weight, they should consider a gallon of milk daily too.

What the fuck is wrong with you? You haven't gotten over your last spanking? That testosterone deal several years ago, right?

[Robin UK]

bed made out of straw.

[OZ-USF-UFGator]

Ya, like I said: OZ is clearly upset about some other stuff so he's tilting at windmills here.



Being fair to OZ, I interpreted this as 9 sets per week: 3 sets per workout, 3 times per week. Even though the way he wrote it does indeed mean 9 sets, 3 times per week. But we can interpret charitably to what he almost certainly meant, and still point out the stupidity and straw-manning of his comments. For example: Everyone knows as an absolute undisputed fact that the LP consists solely of sets to failure for 4 months straight. Especially 78 year olds, for whom standard practice is to load up the bar with 405 on their very first time, instruct them with "Put the bar on your back, squat all the way down then stand back up! GO!" and then add 10 lbs to every workout, 3 days per week, till death do us part. Amazing how anyone even makes it out alive. See, that was pretty easy.

You would be correct that I'm not an idiot and that I meant 9 total sets per week; thanks for acknowledging. I must be the first one to publish a hastily written statement on this board. Can't edit original posts.

Your attempt to "prove" the stupidity of my statement pretty much makes my point that for a 79 year old man to "just do the program" is beyond retarded. Why would someone recommend to the original poster that his brother do starting strength? Or maybe you didn't catch the sarcasm in my post?


God, I miss the culture on this board. It's such a great, accepting culture for those who agree to check all disagreement and original thought at the front door, and completely comply in body, mind and soul.

What the fuck is wrong with you? You haven't gotten over your last spanking? That testosterone deal several years ago, right?

What? the intellectual smack down where I averred that the difference between taking trt and taking steroids was basically the dose, and you got mad and threw a tantrum? I was willing to forgive you for that gaffe; not sure why you brought it up again??

[Michael Wolf]

You would be correct that I'm not an idiot and that I meant 9 total sets per week; thanks for acknowledging. I must be the first one to publish a hastily written statement on this board. Can't edit original posts.

Your attempt to "prove" the stupidity of my statement pretty much makes my point that for a 79 year old man to "just do the program" is beyond retarded. Why would someone recommend to the original poster that his brother do starting strength? Or maybe you didn't catch the sarcasm in my post?

I won't insult your intelligence by even pretending to believe that this is an honest reply. This is the post you replied to with your snarky strawman:

Problem: weak legs
Solution: strengthen legs
Methodology: Starting Strength

Simple enough?

You were around here long enough and have made 1000 posts. You know damn well both that there's a difference between the methodology of starting strength and an absurdist literal interpretation of "the program," as well as that many people who are elderly or have been badly injured have used the former very successfully, to regain function and strength that many times their doctor or PT said was beyond them. Ms Gus Rezan. Brian (Broke Legs). Many forum discussions and testimonials here on this site. Numerous posts shared on social media by the various SS accounts, Westminster Strength, FiveX3 Training in Baltimore, and others.

So I'm not insulting your intelligence. I'm calling you a purposeful bad actor, which is far worse.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Then let me insult his intelligence. He's never posted anything that would indicate he's very bright, and he's always an antagonistic asshole. I like it better when he's gone.

[Mark D]

Wow, I didn't think my little post would cause such a stir.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely my brother will start running Starting Strength, but he DOES realize he needs to do something to get stronger, and he's at the point where just about anything would generate some improvement. As noted above, being able to get up from the toilet without using your hands is MUCH better than not being able to get up without using your hands.

My annoyance was with the doctor, who basically said "You're old, you're SUPPOSED to be weak." As I said, bovine excrement.

[Michael Wolf]

Wow, I didn't think my little post would cause such a stir.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely my brother will start running Starting Strength, but he DOES realize he needs to do something to get stronger, and he's at the point where just about anything would generate some improvement. As noted above, being able to get up from the toilet without using your hands is MUCH better than not being able to get up without using your hands.

My annoyance was with the doctor, who basically said "You're old, you're SUPPOSED to be weak." As I said, bovine excrement.

Don't worry Mark, not your fault there's some people out there more interested in being bitter and vindictive than actually helping people who need it. People will say all sorts of things online they'd never say face to face, too.

Your brother doesn't need to "Do SS" as in the program that is designed for healthy younger people in its unmodified form. If he's willing to do something at all, you can use the basic concept of
stress--> recovery--> adaptation
that is the underlying basis of the program, to get him stronger and it is likely this won't require a barbell for at least a little while. He just needs to start with something challenging but doable - not easy, but not beyond his current strength capacity - and do a few sets there. This may be, as a previous poster said, just sitting down and standing up with some help from his arms pushing off at a bench that's a few inches above parallel. The next session, 2-3 days later, have him do the same thing but with a lighter push-off, or only swinging his arms instead of pushing off. The next session can be no arms at all. The following, lower the bench height by 2 inches and go back to allowing a light push-off. Repeat. After a few weeks of this relatively slow progression, he will probably be squatting below parallel with no push-off or arm swinging. Hopefully by this point he'll have begun trusting you enough by virtue of seeing this relatively quick but substantial improvement, and may be wiling to listen and try that barbell after all. Maybe he'll need to use a dumbbell held in front at first, or combine bodyweight squats with a leg press till he can work up to a 45 lb bar. Lots of options here.

Not all 78 year olds have the shoulder flexibility to do low bar squats, but don't discount em till you've tried. If he can - do em. If he can't, he can do high bar, or front squats with straps, or get a safety bar.

Point is, he doesn't need to "do SS" as in the unmodified version for healthy young people. He can use the exact same principles upon which that program is designed, starting with exactly what he is capable of now, and make it a little harder next time.

[Soule]

Not all 78 year olds have the shoulder flexibility to do low bar squats, but don't discount em till you've tried. If he can - do em. If he can't, he can do high bar, or front squats with straps, or get a safety bar.

After Rip mentioned using his bent bar for arthritic trainees I asked my PTM to order a cheap buffalo bar from Titan. The quality is lackluster, but it works just fine and costs $100. My 75 y/o trainee is already up to 105 for triples in low bar position and he loves the thing.

[Satch12879]

What? the intellectual smack down where I averred that the difference between taking trt and taking steroids was basically the dose, and you got mad and threw a tantrum? I was willing to forgive you for that gaffe; not sure why you brought it up again??

I mean, we can go back and grab the thread.

I seem to remember you insisting, people knowing more than you correcting you repeatedly, you doubling down on being wrong, and then someone who wasn't Rip "getting mad and throwing a tantrum."

[Michael Wolf]

After Rip mentioned using his bent bar for arthritic trainees I asked my PTM to order a cheap buffalo bar from Titan. The quality is lackluster, but it works just fine and costs $100. My 75 y/o trainee is already up to 105 for triples in low bar position and he loves the thing.

Ya, that's another option. The one time I used one it felt somewhat unstable on my back so I didn't love it and tend not to recommend it when there are other options available. But maybe it's something you can get used to over time and adjust for. The benefit is it does allow low bar mechanics to be used, as opposed to needing to switch to high bar, front, or safety bar which seems to be somewhat in between those two.