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  1. #31
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    Ray Gillenwater is offline Administrator, Starting Strength Gyms
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    • texas starting strength seminar september 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnyperX View Post
    Nothing like reverting to name calling because of someone has an opposing opinion. The American way. *eye roll*
    Quote Originally Posted by mikiekimi View Post
    Yeah, I think I need to step away from SS for a while. I've been around here for 10 years and have spent several $s on books, merchandise, and in-person coaching...

    As Starting Strength's "narrow casting" goes into political ideology I'm not too sure I like what I'm seeing...too much name calling and unwillingness to even acknowledge someone has the FREEDOM to have an alternate viewpoint. It seems every COVID thread devolves into a useless circle-jerk.
    I'm not a fan of personal attacks either. If your goal is to facilitate rational discourse in order to better understand the world and each other, I'm with you on that. Please don't lump the entire community into one category. Categorizing and denigrating a group of people is counterproductive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markweiss View Post
    W They also ignore the ongoing medical problems that occur even in recovery from the virus. Long term damage to someone else's health is a price you are willing to pay.
    All viruses can cause ongoing medical problems and long term damage to health in a small percentage of those who come down with that virus.

    A case of the flu can have long lasting effects also. Just doesn't help sell ads for media outlets, that's why you never hear about it.

    The hidden burden of influenza: A review of the extra‐pulmonary complications of influenza infection
    The hidden burden of influenza: A review of the extra‐pulmonary complications of influenza infection


    Flu Symptoms & Complications
    Other possible serious complications triggered by flu can include inflammation of the heart (myocarditis), brain (encephalitis) or muscle (myositis, rhabdomyolysis) tissues, and multi-organ failure (for example, respiratory and kidney failure).
    Flu Symptoms & Complications | CDC

    Better not kiss (Epstein-Barr virus is well known as the cause of "mono", the "kissing disease.")
    Epstein-Barr virus linked to seven serious diseases
    Epstein-Barr virus linked to seven serious diseases

  3. #33
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    The problem, as I see it, is that lockdowns aren't a strategy to control the virus. All they can do is buy time to implement the only strategy that can control the virus and stop economic meltdown: widespread testing, contact tracing, and quarantine of the infected.

    Whether or not there's an authority ordered "lockdown", many, many businesses will be screwed without this test and trace strategy, because lots of consumers will voluntarily chose to reduce visits to restaurants, gyms, etc, while there's the threat of catching a virus with a 1:100 chance of dying.

    It's true that it's mainly the elderly who are at risk of dying, but in most Western countries these people make a significant chunk of economic activity. If a portion of them chose to limit their activities due to fear of the virus then a bad recession is coming anyway, whether businesses try and stay open or not.

    This isn't a comment on the decision to reopen the gyms. My point is that, if you're really concerned with the long-term prospects for the economy and business, you have to push your local authorities (or voluntary organisations, or whoever can do this best locally) to implement a comprehensive testing and contact tracing programme. That's the only way to control the virus, restore consumer confidence to get the economy going.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JordanNewell View Post
    The problem, as I see it, is that lockdowns aren't a strategy to control the virus. All they can do is buy time to implement the only strategy that can control the virus and stop economic meltdown: widespread testing, contact tracing, and quarantine of the infected.
    You're seeing it incorrectly. "Herd immunity" is the only way to control the disease. You cannot stop a virus.

    Whether or not there's an authority ordered "lockdown", many, many businesses will be screwed without this test and trace strategy, because lots of consumers will voluntarily chose to reduce visits to restaurants, gyms, etc, while there's the threat of catching a virus with a 1:100 chance of dying.
    True. But the IFR is far lower than 1%, as you misrepresented.

    It's true that it's mainly the elderly who are at risk of dying, but in most Western countries these people make a significant chunk of economic activity. If a portion of them chose to limit their activities due to fear of the virus then a bad recession is coming anyway, whether businesses try and stay open or not.
    The frail elderly and the already sick are at main risk of dying. Old people have a significant amount of wealth, but that's certainly as hell not the same thing as making a contribution to the economy. I'd like to see your data on their contribution to the economy, and what a quarantine of 75-year-old people with Type II and COPD would do to it. I think this is the same bullshit as your 1% figure above.

    This doesn't mean they are not important -- everybody's grandparents are important, so how about you not getting them sick? And how about you helping them stay safe at home? Put the responsibility on you, not us? Since they're your grandparents, not ours?

    This isn't a comment on the decision to reopen the gyms. My point is that, if you're really concerned with the long-term prospects for the economy and business, you have to push your local authorities (or voluntary organisations, or whoever can do this best locally) to implement a comprehensive testing and contact tracing programme. That's the only way to control the virus, restore consumer confidence to get the economy going.
    Testing and contact tracing do not stop the spread of a virus with a 5-10 day incubation period. More British bullshit. Deal with him, Nockian et al.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Testing and contact tracing do not stop the spread of a virus with a 5-10 day incubation period. More British bullshit. Deal with him, Nockian et al.
    I don't remeber if this got posted on the covid thread. It's the latest Hoover Institute interview with Dr. Jay Bhattacharaya. Jump to around 15:10 for his opinion on testing and contact tracing.

    YouTube

    In the current context, "contact tracing" and "testing" are buzzwords, like "flatten the curve" and "social distancing." They don't signify anything real, they're just mantras people use to help let others know which side of this battle they're on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JordanNewell View Post
    The problem, as I see it, is that lockdowns aren't a strategy to control the virus. All they can do is buy time to implement the only strategy that can control the virus and stop economic meltdown: widespread testing, contact tracing, and quarantine of the infected.

    Whether or not there's an authority ordered "lockdown", many, many businesses will be screwed without this test and trace strategy, because lots of consumers will voluntarily chose to reduce visits to restaurants, gyms, etc, while there's the threat of catching a virus with a 1:100 chance of dying.

    It's true that it's mainly the elderly who are at risk of dying, but in most Western countries these people make a significant chunk of economic activity. If a portion of them chose to limit their activities due to fear of the virus then a bad recession is coming anyway, whether businesses try and stay open or not.

    This isn't a comment on the decision to reopen the gyms. My point is that, if you're really concerned with the long-term prospects for the economy and business, you have to push your local authorities (or voluntary organisations, or whoever can do this best locally) to implement a comprehensive testing and contact tracing programme. That's the only way to control the virus, restore consumer confidence to get the economy going.
    This man actually believes what he has written.

    Tldr summary of his above post:
    -Your business might suffer from the effects of the virus, so the government should preemptively shut it down. It is the only way.
    -The government should closely watch you and micromanage your every move, because freedom isn't safe. It is for your own good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    But the IFR is far lower than 1%, as you misrepresented.
    1% IFR is a ballpark estimate for the population we're talking about. I don't think the whole population average IFR is valid or useful for this virus, because the distribution is so uneven (being effectively 0 for anyone under 30). Uninteresting as it is, the overall IFR is probably between 0.1% and 0.41% [link to source like a good stato]


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    The frail elderly and the already sick are at main risk of dying. Old people have a significant amount of wealth, but that's certainly as hell not the same thing as making a contribution to the economy. I'd like to see your data on their contribution to the economy, and what a quarantine of 75-year-old people with Type II and COPD would do to it.
    10% of the US population has type 2 diabetes. Of course they make a significant contribution to the economy...! And if, as you suggest, their relatives also limit consumption to help shield them, then you are looking at a big old recession, whatever the official advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post

    Testing and contact tracing do not stop the spread of a virus with a 5-10 day incubation period. More British bullshit.
    It has worked nicely in New Zealand, South Korea, and others. They are now much better placed to get their economy going than countries who have not done this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post

    Tldr summary of his above post:
    -Your business might suffer from the effects of the virus, so the government should preemptively shut it down. It is the only way.
    -The government should closely watch you and micromanage your every move, because freedom isn't safe. It is for your own good.
    Except I didn't say either of those things, not least because I don't believe either of those things. I can only assume you're actually arguing with the repressed Socialist who hides deep within your brain (... this is a joke, not a personal attack!).

  8. #38
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    Default Kudos for not complying!

    I feel that government has overstepped itís powers and what you are proposing to do is awesome. The government has either on purpose or ignorantly stopped the full effect of herd immunity to help line the pockets of the Anthony Fauciís and Bill Gatesís of this world. This is not China and we do not have to be in lock step with what officials say!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JordanNewell View Post
    Except I didn't say either of those things, not least because I don't believe either of those things. I can only assume you're actually arguing with the repressed Socialist who hides deep within your brain (... this is a joke, not a personal attack!).
    You stated your support for widespread "testing, contact tracing and quarantine" as the only way to fix [insert variable]; There is no difference between what the government is currently doing and what you explicitly stated support for.

    There is no argument to support or refute here.

  10. #40
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    And he has not explained how testing and contact tracing stop the virus, as I asked him to do.

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