Help fix my logic: why do we press less weight than we bench?

[skypig]

Hi everyone,

I'm stuck in a bit of a logic trap, and I'm hoping you can help. I know that the more muscle mass we involve in a lift, the more weight we can lift, and the more muscle we build - this is why strength training programs are built around the 4 lifts that maximize the involved muscle mass. This idea makes perfect, intuitive sense: more muscle mass = more weight lifted. Okay.

However, when I apply this idea to a comparison of the bench press vs. the overhead press (OHP), it doesn't work. The OHP involves more muscle mass than the bench (not just the biceps, triceps, and pecs, but also the upper and lower back, the abs, and maybe even some of the leg muscles isometrically)...and yet, we can't OHP as much weight as we can bench. I think I read somewhere that the OHP is susceptible to "power leaks" that come from our muscles/physiology being inherently inefficient, and that these "power leaks" are magnified when we stand up...but wouldn't the "power leak" concept also apply to the other lifts? And if so, why is the OHP affected by "power leaks" more than the other lifts (IF this is even the reason why)??

I've been thinking about this for a few days and growing frustrated at my lack of ability to explain it. I'm sure there's a flaw in my logic/understanding somewhere. If the OHP involves more muscle mass than the bench press, why can the OHP not handle as much weight as the bench press? Help, please .

Thanks!

-skypig

[Flying_tiger]

Press= longer kinetic chain. Bench = shorter kinetic chain. Read the blue book.

[CommanderFun]

While many more muscles are called into action as part of the press, they are not main mover muscles. The deltoids, which are a big part of pressing the bar up, are smaller and weaker compared to their counterparts in the bench, the pectorals. There's also range of motion to consider. A press generally travels a longer distance than a bench. I'm pretty sure even people who prioritize press over bench in training still end up with bigger benches usually, unless some kind of injury holds their bench back. But the gap between them is much smaller.

[Satch12879]

The kinetic chain in the BP is shorter compared to the PR. This means the number of degrees of freedom, or actually points of potential instability, between the load and ground are less for the former than the latter. A column can hold more load than a length of chain.

The other reason is that the PR is limited by smaller, comparatively weaker muscles. Failure is always dictated by the weakest link in the chain.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Think of it this way: a deadlift is a full-kinetic chain movement -- how much can you deadlift using only your index fingers?

[skypig]

Thanks everyone - now that I understand the missing points, it makes sense again. Sounds like it was these 3 things I was missing:

1. The OHP involves a longer kinetic chain (more "leak points") than the BP
2. The muscles involved in the OHP are comparatively smaller/weaker than those involved in the BP
3. The range of motion in the OHP is larger than that of the BP

I think #1 and #3 make also make balancing the bar/weight/body system much trickier in the OHP, which indirectly affects the max weight that can be lifted...